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Distillery District

... or maybe take the opposite tack: graft the pedestrian nature of the Distillery District onto the Esplanade, and not link through for vehicular traffic? Or, at the very least, apply the proposed West Don Lands woonerf approach? The city got by just fine when the Esplanade was strictly for choo choo trains, after all, and it hasn't exactly become a motorist's wet dream since it was reinvented in the 1970s. Perhaps there's a natural kinship between the pedestrian Distillery and the car-free Stop Spadina / "City that works" era Esplanade?
 
Is that the site of the first parliament buildings? In that case, i can't see them putting a vehicular road there. Or (i'd like to hope) people will be raising hell.
 
T-Bor said:
Is that the site of the first parliament buildings? In that case, i can't see them putting a vehicular road there. Or (i'd like to hope) people will be raising hell.
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Lots of interesting info at: http://www.toronto.ca/heritage-preservation/pdf/first_parliament_site_presentation.pdf

The site is now almost all in public ownership (again). The Ontario Heritage Foundation owns the current Porsche dealership corner and their lease to Mr Porsche runs out at the end of August - when they move to their new building on other side of Front Street (64 Parliament Street). The City owns the park towards the railway lines and the parking lot (operated by TPA). The only section not yet in public ownership is where the car wash is and I understand that 'negotiations are proceeding' to get this into public hands, probably the Ontario Heritage Foundation.
 
DSC said:
Lots of interesting info at: http://www.toronto.ca/heritage-preservation/pdf/first_parliament_site_presentation.pdf

The site is now almost all in public ownership (again). The Ontario Heritage Foundation owns the current Porsche dealership corner and their lease to Mr Porsche runs out at the end of August - when they move to their new building on other side of Front Street (64 Parliament Street). The City owns the park towards the railway lines and the parking lot (operated by TPA). The only section not yet in public ownership is where the car wash is and I understand that 'negotiations are proceeding' to get this into public hands, probably the Ontario Heritage Foundation.
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Exactly, this park along with the walkway, the Green P lot and the Porsche dealership are all part of the historic First Parliament site of Canada. Now that Porsche is finally extricating themselves from the land with their move to a nearly-completed new building on the southwest corner of King and Parliament, these First Parliament plans can now (in theory) go ahead in time for the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, appropriate since a battle took place at that site. Various proposals have been floating around for years (as we can see from the 2002 date on that otherwise excellent PDF) but all involve some sort of combination of parks, memorials and museum buildings. None to my knowledge consider extending The Esplanade.

In fact, I think such an extension would be terrible for the neighbourhood. Already The Esplanade carries too much speeding external traffic as people try to bypass traffic on Front while jumping between Jarvis and Sherbourne coming on/off the Gardiner. An extension of The Esplanade to Parliament would guarantee its use as a virtual east-west highway. The Esplanade is home to at least 5 schools, hundreds of schoolchildren, and thousands of co-op and condo residents who get around primarily on foot. The last thing it needs is more traffic. Right now only the fact that The Esplanade ends at Berkeley, itself a minor street, limits the efficiency of through traffic and keeps most of it where it belongs -- on the more major streets like Front and King, which have multiple lanes and more traffic lights.
 
The reason to connect the two is to fix the grid. I take that path virtually everyday and I would have no problem with the road being put back in. If for no other reason than it makes no sense to have the 72 bus go up to Front and then back down to Mill.
 
Have to agree that with the pedestrian nature of the Distillery that extending vehicular traffic through the Esplanade to Mill St. wouldn't be ideal. I think the fact that traffic is "cut off" in a sense makes the Distillery more of a destination as opposed to being completely melted into the urban nature of the city. As CityPainter mentioned, despite the traffic between Jarvis and Sherbourne that is fairly prevalent, this is an established neighbourhood that doesn't require a throughfare.
 
The Distillery only feels cut off because its surrounded by empty lots. Wait until the West Donlands are fully developed. I image the traffic at that point will be overwhelming as cars are forced to go north to Front from Mill to get to the core.
 
Ed007Toronto said:
The reason to connect the two is to fix the grid. I take that path virtually everyday and I would have no problem with the road being put back in. If for no other reason than it makes no sense to have the 72 bus go up to Front and then back down to Mill.
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I can understand the temptation to "fix the grid" however it's really only "broken" if you are taking vehicular traffic into account. From a pedestrian and cycling standpoint, I think it's highly preferable the way it is. As UrbanVigor says, The Esplanade is a key part of the very established St. Lawrence Market neighbourhood, one that is often held up as an example of urban planning that worked. Even a simple change like this could risk tilting the balance by turning a vibrant urbanized neighbourhood into a mere throughway. From what I have observed, drivers in a hurry to get to the Gardiner do not drive in a cautious, considerate manner: in their minds are they are already on the highway and drive accordingly.

I agree the bus connections would be a bit more direct with such a connection, but there is already frequent streetcar traffic close by on King, and once the proposed Queens Quay lines are laid, this will create an equally efficient transit link immediately to the south of the Distillery as well. I'm not sure an easier bus route would be worth the trade-off of a massive increase of regular vehicular traffic that would result. Once there is a complete light rail link to the east waterfront I'm not sure that the 72 bus will even be necessary anymore. (See http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/weblog/2010/04/10-queens_qua.shtml for some info on the proposed light rail on Queen's Quay).

But one thing that would be nice would be to create a distinct bike lane through the park. Right now pedestrians and bikes share it, which works reasonably well but some bikes sail through there very quickly and I've seen a few near collisions recently.
 
Let me start by saying I don't own a car. I walk the kids to school from Front and Church to the Distillery every day so I know the area quite well from a pedestrian perspective. Mill Street is currently not very busy but this is sure to change when the West Don Lands are built up. I think at that point this artificial jog is going to cause significant problems especially at Front and Parliament. Like the buses cars already do the jog so why make it hard. And if you are in a rush you'll stay on Front as every intersection on Esplanade has a stop sign. And, frankly, if there's more traffic it'll cause the drivers to actually go slower.

But one thing that would be nice would be to create a distinct bike lane through the park. Right now pedestrians and bikes share it, which works reasonably well but some bikes sail through there very quickly and I've seen a few near collisions recently.
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Agreed. My kids are little and there have been some near incidents as the cyclists barrel through full speed.
 
Ed007Toronto said:
Let me start by saying I don't own a car. I walk the kids to school from Front and Church to the Distillery every day so I know the area quite well from a pedestrian perspective. Mill Street is currently not very busy but this is sure to change when the West Don Lands are built up. I think at that point this artificial jog is going to cause significant problems especially at Front and Parliament. Like the buses cars already do the jog so why make it hard. And if you are in a rush you'll stay on Front as every intersection on Esplanade has a stop sign. And, frankly, if there's more traffic it'll cause the drivers to actually go slower.


Agreed. My kids are little and there have been some near incidents as the cyclists barrel through full speed.
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For sure, I think we're bascially on the same page here. But I guess I just have less faith in motorists. Stop signs seem to be treated as "optional" by a lot of drivers: just try crossing Princess and Esplanade on foot at a busy time and see how many drivers try the "tap the breaks on the way through" approach, especially when turning. It's frankly intimidating to pedestrians. I notice that when traffic on Front or King backs up at the lights, a significant minority of drivers simply become frustrated and cut south to The Esplanade to use it as an overflow alternate. This is where problems occur, because by then they are frustrated and on a mission to seek the Gardiner without thinking about the fact that they have entered a heavily pedestrianized residential neighbourhood with a large population of children and the elderly. Right now, though, I think the inconvenience of "doing the jog" makes drivers learn pretty quickly that The Esplanade is of little use to them because its length is so short. If it was wide open from Parliament through to Jarvis, it would suddenly become much more attractive. More easily accessible roads don't really seem to alleviate traffic jams, they just attract more cars. More traffic might make drivers go slower, but they will be more frustrated/aggressive in the process, making it tougher for pedestrians.

The are just my thoughts based on my personal experiences after 5 years as an extreme commuter followed by 7 years as a downtown pedestrian. I think that the quality of life for pedestrians in the surrounding neighbourhoods should take precedent over the (mostly outsider) cars passing through. And if the drive takes too long, well, perhaps some people might consider leaving their car at home and taking transit next time.

Re: the walking path, it would be great if the new First Parliament plans could incorporate a bike lane in addition to the existing pedestrian path... maybe on the north side of the trees, along where the parking lot fence is now? Then bikes could have quick access, and pedestrians (particularly the elderly and those with small kids) could amble in peace :)
 
I'd like to see The Esplanade made entirely pedestrian. In that regard it is fortuitous that it begins at Yonge and ends at Berkeley/Hahn as it does because it clearly isn't part of a greater street grid carrying east/west through traffic and the battle is therefore already half won. If it evolves into the mid-19th century ideal of a grand walkway - a Rambla of sorts - with a distinctive character that sets it apart, bravo. I can't think of any other candidate in the downtown core that could achieve this sort of potential, other than the Quay which is also about to undergo major changes. It is generously wide, has a maturing canopy of trees that make the existing pedestrian promenade along the north side most enjoyable, provides local residents with green space, seats, fountains and playing fields to enjoy, has retail on the north side with potential to evolve as the neighbourhood changes, and the city is developing delightfully all around it - along the waterfront as well as to the east.
 
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