Despite what Ford says The Streetcar in Toronto is here to stay.

[gweed123]

Throwing around some rough numbers. Completing Sheppard from Downsview to STC would need about 13 km of subway, all in tunnel. Even at $250-million/km this would cost $3.3 billion. At $300-million per km this would be $3.9 billion; roughly that's about $3 billion more.

Also Phase 1 of the SELRT is 13 km; but about 8 km of this is east of where the Sheppard Subway would drop south to STC. So it's only 5 km of the SELRT that would be replaced by subway ... there's lot's of ways to get to $3 billion.

As much as 13 km of subway on Sheppard would be useful to a few people, I'd much prefer they continue instead with the 12 km of subway on Eglinton instead.

The $600 million extra for the B-D extension to STC is pretty close to what we had discussed in a thread earlier at some point. Sounds pretty reasonable. If any of the TC projects are getting re-examined, I'm glad it's that one. It's also the one that's most doable (from a practicality perspective).

Your numbers for Sheppard seem to be pretty accurate too. Although I still think doing a short extension to VP and then a BRT Light/BRT for the rest of Sheppard East is the optimal solution, as you wouldn't have to ask for extra funding.

 

[Dan416]

I think at this point it's out of our hands. $3 billion to make a true crosstown subway line? Sounds like a pretty good deal.

And $600 million extra to extend BD to STC? Very reasonable sum!

 

[nfitz]

I think at this point it's out of our hands. $3 billion to make a true crosstown subway line? Sounds like a pretty good deal.

It's pretty much cancelling the 12-km subway tunnel on Eglinton to build one on Sheppard instead. Given the demands are higher on Eglinton, it's a better deal.

And $600 million extra to extend BD to STC? Very reasonable sum!

But to do it, you cancel the extension of the service to Sheppard. You serve no new users, and actually remove rapid transit from some who already have it.

 

[EnviroTO]

I wonder if Stintz suggesting a re-examination of Transit City was little more than window dressing, or an indication that change was certain? Redirecting money to build two subways to SCC from other Transit City projects would be a negative benefit to Stintz's constituents.

 

[Rainforest]

^ "Reexamination" does not mean changes to every project. Something tells me that Eglinton will go ahead even though it was missing from the Ford's pre-election transit plan.

 

[Rainforest]

They also threw around some figures that the TTC had come up with: for the SRT replacement with subway, they said it'd cost $600 million more than conversion to LRT.

Is this the difference just for the Kennedy - Scarborough Centre section (subway to Scarborough Centre versus SLRT to Scarborough Centre, not counting the SLRT extension further east)?

If so, it would be interesting to compare the cost for the whole corridor:

Option A: SLRT, Kennedy Stn - Scarborough Centre - Sheppard / Markham Rd (present plan)
Option B: subway, Kennedy Stn - Scarborough Centre - Sheppard / McCowan
Option C: subway from Kennedy Stn to Scarborough Centre only, plus LRT link from there to Sheppard / McCowan

 

[Dan416]

It's pretty much cancelling the 12-km subway tunnel on Eglinton to build one on Sheppard instead. Given the demands are higher on Eglinton, it's a better deal.

But to do it, you cancel the extension of the service to Sheppard. You serve no new users, and actually remove rapid transit from some who already have it.

In regards to Sheppard vs. Eglinton, Sheppard was already started, so let's finish it first. I know a lot of people on Eglinton would disagree. But hey, I believe in finishing things once started. A completed Sheppard Subway will not be less busy than a line equivalent in length on Eglinton.

As for the BD to STC extension, it's been shown time and again how much more beneficial it'd be than what we have now or the LRT replacement. I see no reason to delve into that issue again.

 

[nfitz]

In regards to Sheppard vs. Eglinton, Sheppard was already started, so let's finish it first. I know a lot of people on Eglinton would disagree.

That's the most absurd logic I can think of. I believe the philosophy is called "throwing good money after bad".

But if you want to follow that philosophy then Eglinton was also already started ... twice. Once before Sheppard. Let's finish it first.

 

[lafard]

Eglinton is also planned to be truly crosstown, instead of never making it west of Dufferin. You have to compare apples to apples, a "crosstown" line that has 80% of its length in the eastern half of the city, isn't.

 

[Dan416]

That's the most absurd logic I can think of. I believe the philosophy is called "throwing good money after bad".

But if you want to follow that philosophy then Eglinton was also already started ... twice. Once before Sheppard. Let's finish it first.

Sure Eglinton was "started" as much as the SELRT is "started" now. The Sheppard Subway exists. Right here and right now.

"Throwing good money after bad" only applies if the investment was a bad idea to begin with. And it's been proven time and time again that Sheppard is NOT a failure. It's actually quite successful, especially in light of it not being fully built out.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Rob Ford has said that he is not a regular public transit user. He prefers to use his automobile to get around. I, for one, do not want a automobile-addicted person or persons dictate the future of public transit for those of us who already use public transit to get around. History has shown us what happened in the 1950's and 1960's when cities across North America listened to them. Do not make such a big mistake in Toronto.

 

[spider]

Rob Ford has said that he is not a regular public transit user. He prefers to use his automobile to get around. I, for one, do not want a automobile-addicted person or persons dictate the future of public transit for those of us who already use public transit to get around. History has shown us what happened in the 1950's and 1960's when cities across North America listened to them. Do not make such a big mistake in Toronto.

If a person who admits to prefer travel in an automobile is an addict, are you similarly afflicted because of your travel mode preferences? Addiction is too serious a real problem to trivialise thoughtlessly.

 

[Filip]

Rob Ford has said that he is not a regular public transit user. He prefers to use his automobile to get around. I, for one, do not want a automobile-addicted person or persons dictate the future of public transit for those of us who already use public transit to get around. History has shown us what happened in the 1950's and 1960's when cities across North America listened to them. Do not make such a big mistake in Toronto.

I'm pretty sure 98% of Torontonians would prefer to use their cars to get around, anywhere, if it were cheaper.

I don't mind taking the streetcar to get downtown, but I'd much rather sit in my car. However, I'm not likely to pay the parking, and the gas, and other expenses for random trips to the core.. That goes for most people.

 

[nfitz]

I'm pretty sure 98% of Torontonians would prefer to use their cars to get around, anywhere, if it were cheaper.

I think you overestimate it. If there's a good transit connection from point A to B, I have very little desire to drive, when someone else can drive for me.

 

[Filip]

I think you overestimate it. If there's a good transit connection from point A to B, I have very little desire to drive, when someone else can drive for me.

It usually gets down to convenience. If you're going grocery shopping, you'd rather drive to the store so you don't have to carry all that weight around, or convenience in the sense that you don't have to adhere to a transit schedule (especially with the 501 by my house, which shows up at its convenience, every 4 minutes, sometimes 25, sometimes 35, sometimes every 2.. you just never know!).. If you're going down the street to see a friend, even then not having to take the walk from the transit stop is worth grabbing your car.

I'm sure a lot of people see it that way.