sixrings
Senior Member
Go back to Brazil and save me and other happy Canadians decades of talk about how your old country was better
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Density and Subways, revisited
- Thread starter M II A II R II K
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Go back to Brazil and save me and other happy Canadians decades of talk about how your old country was better
mskashmoney
New Member
You're so out of touch, especially the "happy Canadians" part. Jump on a streetcar during rush hour and do a poll of how "happy" people are.
No streetcars, no subways, no parking and a whole lot of shit = TTC expansion planning
No streetcars, no subways, no parking and a whole lot of shit = TTC expansion planning
sixrings
Senior Member
IM not HAPPY, Im not even content. I would love a DRL. Send me a tax bill please. But Im not about to rip the city and the country based on one issue I have with it. Lets face facts, we dont have much violence, we have free health care, we have a good economy, we are diverse , sure we have a shrinking middle class but we still HAVE a middle class. I love transit and cities but its not a negative that out weighs all the positives. I have been to greece (financial disaster, to london (private operated subways - NOT GOOD) Holland (Bikes - I love bikes - but not in humid summers and not in snowy winters) Turkey (no comment), practically the entire united states with LA as the exception (we have better transit the 99% of their cities)
mskashmoney
New Member
I lived in Athens for six years and my family is from Istanbul. I've also been to every other place you listed, and much of the states.
To say that Toronto has a better system than those places is comedy. This city is so poorly run is an understatement. The quality of life is lower than people realize simply because they feel so "secure". Your reasons for loving Canada are valid. I'm from here, GTA born and raised and I care about the city.
Enough so that I can dispense with the pseudo-politeness and ask you how you can possible even mention taxes in this debate when Ottawa steals our tax dollars and spends them ridiculously. $35B for FIGHTER JETS to fight oil wars and appease their contacts at Lockheed-Martin? That's 15 DRL's!!!
Yes, I've lived in Greece and have seen corruption. But nothing compared to this. NOTHING.
To say that Toronto has a better system than those places is comedy. This city is so poorly run is an understatement. The quality of life is lower than people realize simply because they feel so "secure". Your reasons for loving Canada are valid. I'm from here, GTA born and raised and I care about the city.
Enough so that I can dispense with the pseudo-politeness and ask you how you can possible even mention taxes in this debate when Ottawa steals our tax dollars and spends them ridiculously. $35B for FIGHTER JETS to fight oil wars and appease their contacts at Lockheed-Martin? That's 15 DRL's!!!
Yes, I've lived in Greece and have seen corruption. But nothing compared to this. NOTHING.
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sixrings
Senior Member
I agree and I am sure many on here would agree the fighter jet issue is completely insane. I dont know what to say. ANy time there is a TTC meeting in my area I plan my life around it so I can go and support it. Truly speaking I think we need a gas tax or a TOLL on roads. Today I was reading a 407 article in the Star talking about how drivers are upset they are being highway robbed over a 25 cent per km fee. That money is going straight to someones profit. If we charged half of that on 400 highways and the dvp and qew we could fix alot of our transit issues. I believe that time will eventually come since more and more people are screaming for transit as the cost of living sores.
I never said Toronto was perfect but there is a reason people are immigrated here and not the other places, Greece, Spain, Italy, Brazil. However if you cant see that I suggest you either do your civic duty and show up to the meetings and try to make a reasonable difference without ranting or cut your losses and move somewhere that you think is better. Living in a place you hate and complaining about it wont be good for you or the countless people who have to hear about it.
mskashmoney
New Member
My thinking is this....if they approve this "Transit City" plan (i.e. stubs from nowhere to nowhere) with no mention of DRL, I'm out of here. I want to settle eventually, but not in a city that is dedicated remaining backwards. And you can thank city hall for that, I know first hand, I worked there as an intern for a while.
Your points have been taken and are appreciated. I'm still going to be complaining and protesting. I'm a Greek as well, and it's in my DNA ; )
Your points have been taken and are appreciated. I'm still going to be complaining and protesting. I'm a Greek as well, and it's in my DNA ; )
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
I'm joining the BS call on this. Steve Munro certainly does advocate for a downtown line, from Don Mills & Eglinton to the core, and I believe he favours the Wellington alignment. I know this because I red his blog, as opposed to skimming it to find things to disagree with. You're either misinformed or lying.
mskashmoney
New Member
Touche. It seems you skimmed my earlier post and missed the point. Reading is fundamental, so try again. Then go to Steve Munro's blog and read the whole thing before coming back here and trying to tell me he's minimizing the need for a DRL.
Thanks in advance.
sixrings
Senior Member
are you sure you are not cassandra?????????? READ DRL COMMENTS PLEASE FROM STEVE MUNRO
Cassandra says:
January 12, 2012 at 8:15 pm
“Longer term issues should not be bundled into this debate even though many are important: the role of GO and its future frequent all day service including electrification, a Downtown Relief line…”
I don’t think you’ve ever tried riding the subway from a downtown station during rush hour, watching trains go by and not being able to get on because they are full of people from outside the city.
I also don’t think you know what if feels like to pay $3 for a 3 km journey while subsidizing a 20 km journey for someone from York region.
Steve: I beg your pardon. I live downtown. I know what it’s like trying to get on an overpacked subway, and if I were not using a Metropass, I too would scream loudly about paying $3 for a short journey with the TTC’s transfer regulations. The point I am making here is that in any political fight, if you try to accomplish everything in one go, you use up a lot of effort on issues that are not central to the one you want to win — saving Transit City in some form today.
Perhaps you also don’t know what it’s like to take a streetcar on Queen during rush hour, watching people on foot move faster than you.
Steve: I was on the Queen car, or at least trying to be on one, this morning and watching lots of people walking while looking over their shoulder to see if anything was coming. Eventually, I gave up and walked down to King where the first four cars to appear were not going far enough to take me to my destination.
I’m trying to figure out why you keep on shoving issues regarding transit expansion south of Bloor to the back-burner. And I’m trying to figure out your motive for this, because it makes no sense. Have you not seen what a subway system looks like for a major city?
A bunch of stub lines from nowhere (i.e. Transit City) feeding into the YUL that is already at capacity is a recipe for disaster. I find your lack of insight, in addition to your reputation as some sort of transit advocate, some sort of bad paradoxical joke.
Steve: South of Bloor? In case you have not noticed, I have been advocating for the Downtown Relief Line for years, back when all the subway jocks in this town wanted to do was build more subways off into the open fields of suburbia (and thereby overload the YUS). As for lines feeding into Yonge, well, let’s see. Eglinton would feed the Spadina line from the west, and, if the DRL were built, the “Don Mills” line from the east. The Finch line runs west from Keele, and the Sheppard East LRT runs east to Morningside. There is a lot of demand on all of these routes that has nothing to do with the subway or core area travel. Should we not give them better service?
If you want to insult Transit City without proposing some alternative, be my guest. I will lump you in with the no-brainers who were terrified by a streetcar as children and now have a pathological hatred for the mode. If you want to talk about transit without assuming I am some hermit living in a cave up around North Bay who never rides the TTC, then we can have a conversation. Otherwise, I will assume you yourself live under a rock and have nothing better to do than insult people without knowing their history, their positions or their arguments. Don’t bother leaving more comments here.
Cassandra says:
January 12, 2012 at 8:15 pm
“Longer term issues should not be bundled into this debate even though many are important: the role of GO and its future frequent all day service including electrification, a Downtown Relief line…”
I don’t think you’ve ever tried riding the subway from a downtown station during rush hour, watching trains go by and not being able to get on because they are full of people from outside the city.
I also don’t think you know what if feels like to pay $3 for a 3 km journey while subsidizing a 20 km journey for someone from York region.
Steve: I beg your pardon. I live downtown. I know what it’s like trying to get on an overpacked subway, and if I were not using a Metropass, I too would scream loudly about paying $3 for a short journey with the TTC’s transfer regulations. The point I am making here is that in any political fight, if you try to accomplish everything in one go, you use up a lot of effort on issues that are not central to the one you want to win — saving Transit City in some form today.
Perhaps you also don’t know what it’s like to take a streetcar on Queen during rush hour, watching people on foot move faster than you.
Steve: I was on the Queen car, or at least trying to be on one, this morning and watching lots of people walking while looking over their shoulder to see if anything was coming. Eventually, I gave up and walked down to King where the first four cars to appear were not going far enough to take me to my destination.
I’m trying to figure out why you keep on shoving issues regarding transit expansion south of Bloor to the back-burner. And I’m trying to figure out your motive for this, because it makes no sense. Have you not seen what a subway system looks like for a major city?
A bunch of stub lines from nowhere (i.e. Transit City) feeding into the YUL that is already at capacity is a recipe for disaster. I find your lack of insight, in addition to your reputation as some sort of transit advocate, some sort of bad paradoxical joke.
Steve: South of Bloor? In case you have not noticed, I have been advocating for the Downtown Relief Line for years, back when all the subway jocks in this town wanted to do was build more subways off into the open fields of suburbia (and thereby overload the YUS). As for lines feeding into Yonge, well, let’s see. Eglinton would feed the Spadina line from the west, and, if the DRL were built, the “Don Mills” line from the east. The Finch line runs west from Keele, and the Sheppard East LRT runs east to Morningside. There is a lot of demand on all of these routes that has nothing to do with the subway or core area travel. Should we not give them better service?
If you want to insult Transit City without proposing some alternative, be my guest. I will lump you in with the no-brainers who were terrified by a streetcar as children and now have a pathological hatred for the mode. If you want to talk about transit without assuming I am some hermit living in a cave up around North Bay who never rides the TTC, then we can have a conversation. Otherwise, I will assume you yourself live under a rock and have nothing better to do than insult people without knowing their history, their positions or their arguments. Don’t bother leaving more comments here.
nfitz
Superstar
What's with the lies? There's many references to the Dowtown Relief Line in the Subway section http://stevemunro.ca/?cat=13 including http://stevemunro.ca/?p=1774
I've seen many, many, many comments published from people who disagree with him. I don't know what you have to for him to block you - but I assume it would far more than disagreeing with him.
Why that makes you think it's okay to come here and start telling such odd lies that are so easy to prove wrong, I don't know ...
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=1774
I'm starting to think your lying to us about your first post being this evening. Have you been banned here before too?
mskashmoney
New Member
sixrings
Senior Member
Justin10000
Banned
Then leave, God I hate whiners.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I agree with other forum members that this statement is not true. You could have said that Steve was not a supporter of the DRL from day 1 - but he has been for at least 3 or 4 years now. You could have also commented on whether he viewed DRL as a higher priority than Transit City - although there were provincial politics around this as well.
I have suggested some wierd ideas on Steve's blog and have been corrected a few times, but I was not banned and no personal attacks were made - on either side.
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mskashmoney
New Member
My bad. The search function on my browser wasn't working. Here is my reply:
"Steve: I beg your pardon. I live downtown. I know what it’s like trying to get on an overpacked subway, and if I were not using a Metropass, I too would scream loudly about paying $3 for a short journey with the TTC’s transfer regulations. The point I am making here is that in any political fight, if you try to accomplish everything in one go, you use up a lot of effort on issues that are not central to the one you want to win — saving Transit City in some form today."
The priority shouldn't be Transit City. Similar systems in Europe were/are being created to compliment existing subway infrastructure. Urban planners, including former TTC general manager David Gunn support this proposition. You can't keep on building feeder lines into a system cracking at the seams from over-capacity.
The political fight shouldn't be about Transit City, but about building subways in dense areas that are desperately needed right now. And it's not as if this idea isn't supported. Transit City is dead, let's not forget that.
"Steve: I was on the Queen car, or at least trying to be on one, this morning and watching lots of people walking while looking over their shoulder to see if anything was coming. Eventually, I gave up and walked down to King where the first four cars to appear were not going far enough to take me to my destination."
Thanks for proving my point.
"Steve: South of Bloor? In case you have not noticed, I have been advocating for the Downtown Relief Line for years"
It's not in your "Grand Plan". A post you made in 2009 talking about (yet another) study on the DRL is not enough.
"back when all the subway jocks in this town wanted to do was build more subways off into the open fields of suburbia (and thereby overload the YUS)"
Funny, your campaigning for this now, but it's only the slightly better scenario of cheaper LRT in suburban communities of two-story homes.
"There is a lot of demand on all of these routes that has nothing to do with the subway or core area travel. Should we not give them better service?"
Yes, dedicated bus lanes as I've seen in Europe.
"If you want to insult Transit City without proposing some alternative"
I don't care for alternatives for transit in the suburbs when what we need is several (yes, plural) downtown lines connecting areas where people CANNOT drive.
"I will lump you in with the no-brainers"
Count David Gunn among them. He inspires my ideas and has the experience to back up what he proposes and lends support to.
"If you want to talk about transit without assuming I am some hermit living in a cave up around North Bay who never rides the TTC, then we can have a conversation."
We can have that conversation when you start to not only propose and support the DRL with some regularity, but to offer insight on where it should go and stops it should have. I would love it.
"Don’t bother leaving more comments here."
I'm not interested in leaving comments about GO expansion and lines to nowhere. The entire GO network is less than the Queen Streetcar. We need to start talking about the infrastructure of the core downtown. It's embarassing to have tourists/friends visit and not be able to have rapid transit to Little Italy, the Distillary District, Liberty Village and Queen West. These are the areas of the city worth visiting, not suburban areas. It's the hard truth. And I speak with passion about this because I'm from here and see a lot of potential to this place, and after the Sheppard debacle I have zero tolerance for transit expansion being driven by politics in lieu of a grand vision for what could be the best city in North America.
***
I still stand for my comments regarding the NIMBY-ist attitude and hostility towards intensification at city hall. I worked there for a short period of time and have heard the rumours (and because they are rumours I won't indulge in listing them here).
But I will say this...I heard through the grapevine that some of the very "heros" of city politics have been instrumental in shelving the DRL throughout the years.
I went to several offices of downtown councillors and was greeted with blank stares and attitudes of indifference when I mentioned the DRL. It's infuriating, so if anyone is put off by my attitude in this forum it's been affected greatly by this experience and my disappointment that CodeRedTO is focusing on Transit City rather than the DRL, which I believe is essential to our subway network.