No one is saying suburbanites shouldn't use the subway. There's a very big difference between suburban access and building subways in the suburbs. - I'm saying that Scarborough does not have the density nor ridership to justify this ridiculous multi-billion dollar extension.
Scarborough already has two subway stations, and a 3rd right on the border with Don Mills.
And we've already discussed stations like Vic Park and Warden - how far apart are they from each other? You keep cherry picking ridership numbers and ignoring context.
Vic Park to Kennedy is about 6.5km - 7km.
Broadview all the way to Main Street (the station before Vic Park) is just 5km.
What's the ridership difference?
Vic Park - Kennedy: 128,140
Broadview - Main Street: 129,800
What a surprise. The stations in a shorter, denser area have higher ridership.
And really, Vic Park should be counted along with Main - the urban grid essentially ends there.
Despite the distance between Vic Park, Warden and Kennedy, numbers for Warden still don't really compare to areas in the city. Dundas West to Dufferin is just 1.6km and it services nearly 79,000 riders.
This SSE extension is 6km for just one extra station, and the projected ridership numbers (for 2031 mind you) are terrible.
I agree. So build a comprehensive network in Scarborough, and people who want to go downtown can take GO Transit, or get on subway at Kennedy if they really want to. Or, you can even stay on the Crosstown East LRT and head straight to the Yonge Line.
As per city stats, 77% of all transit trips beginning in Scarborough are not ending/going downtown.
For what has to be the 20th time, no one here likes the current subway proposal. People just want a transfer free trip from the STC to the Yonge line or the DRL, nothing more. And if you're going to talk about density, look at the Spadina line, the Bloor line outside of downtown, The Yonge Line between St. Clair and Bloor Yonge, etc.
Here, I am not cherry picking numbers. Those are the only subway stations in Scarborough. The subway runs aboveground between those three stations, you don't have to pay for the costs of maintaining tunnels, and fewer stations means much cheaper operating costs. It's much more efficient to run a subway this way.
Your numbers are complete bullshit with regards to subway distances.
They are pretty much the exact same distances, and the ridership is basically the same. (Ridership counts are done one day every year, so a difference of about 2000, especially considering that you're comparing 8 stations to 3, is completely within a margin of error).
Which section of line has higher operating costs? The Broadview-Main corridor or the Vic Park-Kennedy corridor? For starters, the Broadview-Main corridor has 8 stations, and is underground. The Vic Park to Kennedy corridor has 3 stations and is completely aboveground. The Vic Park to Kennedy corridor makes the TTC significantly more money than the Broadview-Main corridor.
Here's the big difference between Dundas west-Dufferin and Vic Park-Main, Dundas West-Dufferin has 2 streetcar routes (2 of the busiest in the city I might add), more rapid routes, more frequent bus routes, GO lines, and UPX feeding into it. More surface connections == more ridership, period. On top of that, they're employment centers, another factor greatly influencing ridership. People get off there and get on there during rush hour.
Warden is huge, nearly 30,000 riders per day. That's better than Wellesley, Nearing Bloor-Yonge without the transfer, Rosedale, Summerhill, Davisville, Lawrence, York Mills, Sheppard Yonge without Sheppard Subway users, and North York centre. It also happens to be better than Ossgoode, Museum, and nearing the ridership of St. Patrick. The station has better ridership than Dundas West, Lansdowne, and is close to dufferin.
For the trillionth time, the current plan is utter shit, but that doesn't mean higher order transit isn't needed in the suburbs. Build the subway extension along the hydro corridor for half of it or as a viaduct. It would save money, have more stations and would still reap all the benefits of grade-separated transit (especially bus terminals).
Taking GO transit downtown makes no sense from Scarborough for a few reasons:
1. It's slow as hell going into Union because of train traffic
2. Trains are already packed with commuters from other cities
3. The stops reduce riders from other cities, polluting the skies of Toronto
4. GO only goes into Union, which is useless unless you work at Union. the subway takes you to midtown, downtown, and uptown.
5. Transferring at Union is even worse than transferring at Kennedy
6. You pay a TTC fare to get to a GO station, a GO fare to take go, then another TTC fare to get to your work. It's not cost effective for the average commuter
Why do you think so many commuters get off GO at Long Branch, Mimco, Exhibition, Kipling, Danforth, Kennedy, and now Downsview park? Because it's cheaper and more convenient. Why don't Vaughan commuters take the barrie line, or RH commuters take the Richmond Hill Line? That's right, it's slower and more expensive than taking the subway.
By the way: 23% of Scarborough's population going to Downtown is 145,000 people, or around 300,000 trips per day just for work. Nevermind social interactions or community involvements. Although that's a really high ball, let's say eventually, with a good subway plan, 150,000 trips per day are taken from a Scarborough to Downtown (ignore midtown on the crosstown or BD line, because everyone has to go Downtown), that's a lot of trips, more than many sections of the BD line. Plus, eventually, Scarborough will have to densify; subways are built with the future in mind.
Again with Crosstown east, great if you live in South Scarborough along Eglinton, terrible if you live everywhere else. The STC needs to be served somehow, and there aren't many easy ways to do this.
