News   Jul 12, 2024
199 Church Showcases Heritage Facade and Artwork at Street Level
 1.3K     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Six Points Plaza Redevelopment Advances With 36-Storey First Phase
 1K     1 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Trading Spaces: Can Real Estate Conversion Help Boost Housing Supply?
 383     0 

Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

BurlOak said:
The main (only?) benefit of the subway option is that the SRT could run while construction is progressing.
Click to expand...

TTC has downgraded SRT service twice over the last couple of years and the original date to decommission it was something like 2012. TTC can't guarantee 6 more months of service let alone 6 years out of those trains.
 
snowystar said:
Wow.. what are they building there!? Vancouver and Calgary can build an entire carhouse with just a small fraction of the $500m ($60~$110m), while in Toronto, we can only get a portion of one with $500m...
Click to expand...

Hmm.. $150M for the land, $50M to clear it (decontaminate from whatever the previous use was; more if asbestos or heavy metal contamination), $30M for engineering to create a tender contract, and now start building at whatever 2015 construction prices are.

Certification/testing by TTC staff is likely another $20M to make sure the contractor did their job.


You can't buy enough land for a 30 train carhouse in populated areas of Vancouver for $110m either. So your total is incomplete, incorrect, or not comparable. Perhaps that is a construction tender only?
 
Last edited:
rbt said:
Hmm.. $150M for the land, $50M to clear it (decontaminate from whatever the previous use was), $30M for engineering to create a tender contract, and now start building at whatever 2015 construction prices are with insurance.

Certification/testing by TTC staff is likely another $20M to make sure the contractor did their job.


You can't buy enough land for a 30 train carhouse in populated areas of Vancouver for $110m either. So your total is incomplete or incorrect. Perhaps that is a construction tender only?
Click to expand...

Well, these numbers are directly from the plan for UBC Line:

12km LRT option - $76m for storage and maintenance facility and $96m for property (of entire line) for 36 vehicles
11km SkyTrain option - $52m for storage and maintenance facility and $51m for property (of entire line) for 104 vehicles

And the $110m is the actual cost of facility for a 64-LRV facility in Calgary in 2007.

So either way, they are still only a fraction of what it cost to build in Toronto.
 
rbt said:
Hmm.. $150M for the land, $50M to clear it (decontaminate from whatever the previous use was; more if asbestos or heavy metal contamination), $30M for engineering to create a tender contract, and now start building at whatever 2015 construction prices are.

Certification/testing by TTC staff is likely another $20M to make sure the contractor did their job.
Click to expand...

That seems very expensive. How big would the land site have to be? 15 acres? This site is 30m...
 
diminutive said:
That seems very expensive. How big would the land site have to be? 15 acres? This site is 30m...
Click to expand...

Conlins Road Carhouse for the Sheppard LRT & SRT is a 32-acre site to hold 135 LRVs (40 3-car trains).

I would guess an SRT specific carhouse would need to be 20+ acres since most of those trains are for the SRT and Eglinton. Sheppard East only needs a handful.


The property you showed was Mississauga which will not work for an SRT carhouse. The Canadian Tire property sold to Concord Adex (40 acres for Discovery Place near Leaslie & Sheppard) for $150M in 2006.

Land prices near transit (SRT counts as transit) have increased significantly since 2006, so I'll stick with my $150M estimate for 25 acres within 500m of the SRT. Expropriation of an active business is going to be more expensive than vacant land due to moving costs.

http://www.lexpert.ca/magazine/big-...-york-development-lands-to-concord-adex-3635/
 
Last edited:
BurlOak said:
The main (only?) benefit of the subway option is that the SRT could run while construction is progressing. If the SRT must be shut down, we may as well build the Eglinton (elevated, of course) and SRT connected all the way from Mount Dennis to Malvern. This would be a less expensive solution and it would still provide a single transfer ride from Scarborough to the Downtown core - actually, it would be provided to many more riders than the subway option. It would also provide much better transit options when the DRL is built.
Click to expand...

The two options would have similar cost.

But the Eglinton - SRT option is very likely to choke Eglinton approaching Yonge; there is not enough capacity in Eglinton LRT design to add a massive amount of riders from Scarborough.
 
rbt said:
It seems that the Scarborough subway would be $1B more than the LRT option.

If I understand http://stevemunro.ca/?p=7741 correctly, the Scarborough LRT includes $500m for a carhouse and yard BUT the current plan is to share the space with Sheppard East at Conlins Road Carhouse making this $500M expense unnecessary (it's a backup plan).

In short, the Scarborough LRT option should come in $500M under budget if Sheppard East is built on schedule and the subway extension is $500M over the existing budget making the real gap (extra dollars expended) $1B.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the subway would not need a new carhouse, either. According to the same post, TTC will have a surplus of T1 trains once the YUS line is fully converted to TR and automatic operation.

Though, the risk of cost overruns due to unforeseen circumstances is admittedly higher for the subway plan, since it would run on a new alignment.
 
Rainforest said:
The two options would have similar cost.

But the Eglinton - SRT option is very likely to choke Eglinton approaching Yonge; there is not enough capacity in Eglinton LRT design to add a massive amount of riders from Scarborough.
Click to expand...

:confused:

Didn't see that one in the Metrolinx report. Keeping the line at Grade and separated from the RT is the best solution since less riders from Scarborough will want to use it. Makes sense :rolleyes:
 
Rainforest said:
The two options would have similar cost.

But the Eglinton - SRT option is very likely to choke Eglinton approaching Yonge; there is not enough capacity in Eglinton LRT design to add a massive amount of riders from Scarborough.
Click to expand...

I found in the DRTES Final Report (2012), the ridership on the B-D just before Yonge is 22,600 now, in 2031 will be 30,700. This decreases to 25,300 when the DRL is built to Pape and 24,700 when the DRL is built to Eglinton.

DRTES also says that the transfers from B-D at Yonge is 6,400 now, in 2031 will be 9,200. This decreases to 5,700 when the DRL is built to Pape and 5,400 if built to Eglinton. Thus, the DRL would make things about 15% better than today in terms of trasfers.

So it seems that about 40% (9200/22,600) of passengers transfer at Yonge. If we say that 8,000 passengers come down the SRT corridor in 2031and stay on the Eglinton line, this would make transfers at Yonge = 3,200 and it would would mean that 6,000 (9,200 - 3,200) would transfer at Eglinton. There would also be some trasnfers at Yonge/Eglinton from those boarding in Leaside, but I have a harder time quantifying this. I think overall this is a pretty balanced split, which I think is exactly what is needed. If needed, it is also probably much easier to improve the Yonge-Eglinton Station than the Yonge-Bloor one since space is not as tight. Of course when the DRL is built it is much easier to make the new Don Mills / Eglinton station to be a major transfer station than to do it with an existing Pape station.
 
Solid Snake said:
:confused:

Didn't see that one in the Metrolinx report. Keeping the line at Grade and separated from the RT is the best solution since less riders from Scarborough will want to use it. Makes sense :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase that for you.

Keeping the line at Grade and separated from the RT is the worst solution since less riders from Scarborough will be able to use it - they will be forced to transfer at Kennedy and then overcrowd Yonge/Bloor . Makes no sense
 
BurlOak said:
Let me rephrase that for you.

Keeping the line at Grade and separated from the RT is the worst solution since less riders from Scarborough will be able to use it - they will be forced to transfer at Kennedy and then overcrowd Yonge/Bloor . Makes no sense
Click to expand...

I know, I was being sarcastic :)

Some people in this forum are just allergic to the idea of having Scarborough connected to the rest of the city by rapid transit
 
Solid Snake said:
I know, I was being sarcastic :)

Some people in this forum are just allergic to the idea of having Scarborough connected to the rest of the city by rapid transit
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was watching the hockey game at the same time and didn't read your post properly.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top