rbt
Senior Member
So your saying we should use something with the highest top speed like the CLRV?
I think there's a lot more to it than just the capabilities of the vehicle.
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So your saying we should use something with the highest top speed like the CLRV?
I think there's a lot more to it than just the capabilities of the vehicle.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
And remember, one of the problems with subways is the higher operating costs and the fact that if Eglinton did go for subways, we would have to cancel the FWLRT and SELRT.
The LRT will serve Eglinton well for the foreseeable future (50+ years)
The LRT will serve Eglinton well for the foreseeable future (50+ years)
rbt
Senior Member
The underground portion of Eglinton will have ever bit as much operating/maintenance expense as the underground portion of any other line.
The cost of maintaining a tunnel, signals, etc. is related to having a tunnel and signals (Eglinton LRT is fully automated in the tunnel; same system as Yonge is getting).
I'm in favour of LRT on the surface where practical to reduce these expenses, but rolling stock doesn't change much. Surface TR's are cheaper to maintain too.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Two things to remember when trying to figure out Metrolinx' motivations on Eglinton/SRT, the second of which I was reminded of by a tweet yesterday.
1. Metrolinx originally wanted to get the private sector to design/build/operate/maintain - clearly easier to shut the TTC out on vehicles they didn't already own. Presumably Bombardier (as builder of the Flexities and who also operates and maintains GO trains) would have been one party they had in mind for the job.
2. The Eglinton line belongs to Metrolinx, not TTC (although there will be some interesting land ownership issues at the subway intersections similar to those around the PATH). If SRT is light rail, Metrolinx would own it (presumably with a transfer of the TTC assets along the SRT alignment. If the BD line is extended then like the Spadina Extension it would be classed as a TTC asset for accounting purposes. (also worth remembering in respect of Sheppard extension modes)
1. Metrolinx originally wanted to get the private sector to design/build/operate/maintain - clearly easier to shut the TTC out on vehicles they didn't already own. Presumably Bombardier (as builder of the Flexities and who also operates and maintains GO trains) would have been one party they had in mind for the job.
2. The Eglinton line belongs to Metrolinx, not TTC (although there will be some interesting land ownership issues at the subway intersections similar to those around the PATH). If SRT is light rail, Metrolinx would own it (presumably with a transfer of the TTC assets along the SRT alignment. If the BD line is extended then like the Spadina Extension it would be classed as a TTC asset for accounting purposes. (also worth remembering in respect of Sheppard extension modes)
rbt
Senior Member
It seems that the Scarborough subway would be $1B more than the LRT option.
If I understand http://stevemunro.ca/?p=7741 correctly, the Scarborough LRT includes $500m for a carhouse and yard BUT the current plan is to share the space with Sheppard East at Conlins Road Carhouse making this $500M expense unnecessary (it's a backup plan).
In short, the Scarborough LRT option should come in $500M under budget if Sheppard East is built on schedule and the subway extension is $500M over the existing budget making the real gap (extra dollars expended) $1B.
Subway was probably the right answer in 2006 when Soberman was encouraging it but I think it's too late now. It's not at all certain the SRT will survive until 2015 let alone 2020 when a subway would be complete.
If I understand http://stevemunro.ca/?p=7741 correctly, the Scarborough LRT includes $500m for a carhouse and yard BUT the current plan is to share the space with Sheppard East at Conlins Road Carhouse making this $500M expense unnecessary (it's a backup plan).
In short, the Scarborough LRT option should come in $500M under budget if Sheppard East is built on schedule and the subway extension is $500M over the existing budget making the real gap (extra dollars expended) $1B.
Subway was probably the right answer in 2006 when Soberman was encouraging it but I think it's too late now. It's not at all certain the SRT will survive until 2015 let alone 2020 when a subway would be complete.
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denfromoakvillemilton
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They have to extended BD to Sherway then that's the case.
Toronto Transit is mortifying.
Toronto Transit is mortifying.
ShonTron
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Why do 'they' have to extend to Sherway if they aren't extending the line eastward? That's a non sequitur.
DavidH
Senior Member
Yep, let's keep planning transit based on regional jealousies rather than actual needs.
JayBeeGooner
Active Member
rbt
Senior Member
Somewhat correct.
The EA process is much shorter than it used to be. Based on Eglinton (which was a ton more work than Scarborough would take) an EA and design could be cranked out in about 18 months.
Also, several years on the Spadina Extension were spent waiting for funding. After the feds agreed to it in principal (set money aside in the budget) it took 2 or 3 years to write and sign the funding agreement which was necessary before anything could be tendered.
2020 is optimistic for a Scarborough subway opening date but it is achievable. I'd expect a minimum of 5 years of riding a SCC to Kennedy bus if everything goes well.
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denfromoakvillemilton
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Because sherway would be another trip generator and the western end has been neglected. It would also help the Halton Peel BRT by giving it another point of destination.
DavidH
Senior Member
Point is let's do a study to find out if an extension to Sherway makes sense, rather than just saying that because Scarborough got something that Etobicoke needs something to. Perhaps the money that would go to Sherway in your plan (which is NOT in the Big Move) would be better spent extending Eglinton to the airport (planned but not currently funded).
denfromoakvillemilton
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True.
snowystar
New Member
BurlOak
Senior Member
The main (only?) benefit of the subway option is that the SRT could run while construction is progressing. If the SRT must be shut down, we may as well build the Eglinton (elevated, of course) and SRT connected all the way from Mount Dennis to Malvern. This would be a less expensive solution and it would still provide a single transfer ride from Scarborough to the Downtown core - actually, it would be provided to many more riders than the subway option. It would also provode much better transit options when the DRL is built.