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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Seeing the development proposals elsewhere along the Crosstown route, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Crosstown East generates several times more development proposals along its route than Scarborough Centre. Developers have never shown interest in Scarborough Centre, and they don't seem any more enthusiastic now that the subway is coming.

Instead of attempting to make developers build in Scarborough Centre (where nobody wants to be), the City should ease restrictions at Kennedy and Eglinton. With Crosstown East, Crosstown, Line 2 and RER meeting there, it's very suitable to be a development node. But if I'm remembering correctly, development in that area has been restricted so that it does not compete with Scarborough Centre.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Seeing the development proposals elsewhere along the Crosstown route, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Crosstown East generates several times more development proposals along its route than Scarborough Centre. Developers have never shown interest in Scarborough Centre, and they don't seem any more enthusiastic now that the subway is coming.

Instead of attempting to make developers build in Scarborough Centre (where nobody wants to be), the City should ease restrictions at Kennedy and Eglinton. With Crosstown East, Crosstown, Line 2 and RER meeting there, it's very suitable to be a development node. But if I'm remembering correctly, development in that area has been restricted so that it does not compete with Scarborough Centre.
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Developers are just polticiong due to fees. They are salivating at the subway sales pitch just like elsewhere in the City. The land around STC is being held tightly by developers just waiting for the right opportuntiy.

I dont disagree Eglinton needs to review its development restriction with transit on its way. But the subway condos will indeed be more lucrative
 
coffey1 said:
Hasn't happened because:

1. The RT isn't attractive to commuters whatsoever.
2. There has been lack of clarity surrounding the upgrade and developers have been waiting for clarity.

Once the subway is established it will do very well. Of course you can LOL any satellite center that is not downtown if you choose. But it will certainty do very well compared to any other satellite center in the GTA especially with a seamless connection to Toronto's main economic Center.

If we grow our City's suburban centers with efficient integration they will certainly be highly attractive options for development within the GTA
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Brad Duguid said that Scarborough Centre is one of the fastest growing city centres in Canada. As in, today. Right now. I'm not dismissing it's future potential, but for a prominent government minister to make such a patently false comment, "LOL" is the least that should be said. But to address one of your other points,

1. Mississauga centre doing well without subway or any rapid transit
2. Markham centre growing much faster than Vaughan without subway.
3. Etobicoke Centre stagnated despite subway, fell way short of population/employment projections that planners once hoped for.

My point is, the subway does not guarantee anything, and I've already explained the many other challenges facing SC beyond just transportation. It might do well in the future, or it might not. What will happen here is anyone's guess.
 
Cobra said:
I still believe that STC has potential to be a dynamic and vibrant "Gate to the east"...the question is: Does Toronto has the audacity and will to rethink STC completely? As is, it's success it very much so limited.

Perhaps STC could be a transit hub, entertainment area while its downtown core for mix level high-rise development should be moved somewhere else like the McCowan-Sheppard area?

Sheppard Avenue East which already have lots of redevelopment projects and existing towers could emulate North York Centre's Yonge street. Yonge being the main artery for highrises and business while slowly expanding beyond that main street. This is a much more realistic model to follow for Scarborough. As long as they bank it all on the STC mall, it will be an utter failure...subway or not.

a-aerial-view-of-north-york-from-highway-401-and-yonge-st-f59bg3.jpg
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Thought I'd repost that to give some perspective. That's a fact. STC needs a reboot. The potential is still there but the city has done a poor job on capitalizing on it.
 
salsa said:
Brad Duguid said that Scarborough Centre is one of the fastest growing city centres in Canada. As in, today. Right now. I'm not dismissing it's future potential, but for a prominent government minister to make such a patently false comment, "LOL" is the least that should be said. But to address one of your other points,

1. Mississauga centre doing well without subway or any rapid transit - Council takes sole pride in finding other ways to attract business since its the one and only priority. Scarborough is 4th fiddle out here. Also of note the proposed LRT in Sauga is decent design of one technology from north to south connecting Brampton. If Vaughan is getting a subway.. Mississauga isn't likely far off. And youl lhear little oppostion from within Peel region.:)

2. Markham centre growing much faster than Vaughan without subway. Again they beautify York region and have a different tax structure to attract Business. If they were directly connected to downtown the would be asking for hacked in LRT lines

3. Etobicoke Centre stagnated despite subway, fell way short of population/employment projections that planners once hoped for. The expectation were too high. Investment Capital will always flow to downtown first. These centers will become important secondary commuter hubs with seamless conenection to the main business area & will also attract Satellite office with these seamless connections to downtown.

My point is, the subway does not guarantee anything, and I've already explained the many other challenges facing SC beyond just transportation. It might do well in the future, or it might not. What will happen here is anyone's guess.
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1. Mississauga centre doing well without subway or any rapid transit - Council takes sole pride in finding other ways to attract business since its the one and only priority. Scarborough is 4th fiddle out here. Also of note the proposed LRT in Sauga is decent design of one technology from north to south connecting Brampton. If Vaughan is getting a subway.. Mississauga isn't likely far off. And youll hear little opposition from within Peel region internally if that day comes.:)

2. Markham centre growing much faster than Vaughan without subway. Again they spent tax dollars to beautify York region and have a different tax structure to attract business. (Something Toronto should do with Scarborough.) If they were directly connected to downtown Toronto they would not be asking for hacked in LRT lines

3. Etobicoke Centre stagnated despite subway, fell way short of population/employment projections that planners once hoped for. The expectation were too high. Investment Capital will always flow to downtown first. These centers will become important secondary commuter hubs with seamless conenection to the main business area & will also attract Satellite office with these seamless connections to downtown.


The 905 Cities have invested heavily within to beautify offer tax breaks to attract business & revitalize old areas with quality projects. Scarborough has been mired by lack of Political leadership & proper investment since amalgamation. But Scarborough Center has something all those Cities don't.. Proximity to downtown Toronto. And if integrated properly into its own City it will be an easy sell.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
How do you suggest we capitalize on it? We've been trying for 30 years.
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Really? What has the City of Toronto done to attract business to Scarborough? Seen as I have lived across the GTA I would say its the most poorly invested, mismanaged area (City) in the GTA from a municipal standpoint to plan for growth & re-development.


The Subway and Eglinton LRT will do alot as far as transit goes. But this is just one major area and likely the most important from an optics perspective by integrating it effectively into its own Mega City's infrastructure
 
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Cobra said:
I still believe that STC has potential to be a dynamic and vibrant "Gate to the east"...the question is: Does Toronto has the audacity and will to rethink STC completely? As is, it's success it very much so limited.

Perhaps STC could be a transit hub, entertainment area while its downtown core for mix level high-rise development should be moved somewhere else like the McCowan-Sheppard area?

Sheppard Avenue East which already have lots of redevelopment projects and existing towers could emulate North York Centre's Yonge street. Yonge being the main artery for highrises and business while slowly expanding beyond that main street. This is a much more realistic model to follow for Scarborough. As long as they bank it all on the STC mall, it will be an utter failure...subway or not.

a-aerial-view-of-north-york-from-highway-401-and-yonge-st-f59bg3.jpg
Click to expand...

My proposal would be to concentrate mixed used midrise development on the Eglinton East-Kingston Road Corridor, along the Crosstown East LRT. It's location is better, and developers have actually shown interest in that corridor. At Kennedy and Eglinton, the development could transition from midrise to high-rise, since that area is particularly well suited for intensification, as it intersects three rapid transit lines.

This would emulate what the successful model at North York Centre, with midrise development along Yonge transitioning briefly to high-rise developments near Sheppard.

Scarborough Centre would continue to exist as a bus hub.
 
salsa said:
Also important: what has the former city of Scarborough been doing all these decades when they had full control of their own affairs?
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Amalgamation stagnation. Every City needs to re-invent and build off past Political mistakes or achievements. We have a narrative in this City as seen in your comment where we should just stop, do nothing and blame historical Politicians.

We need serious growth plans for our Toronto suburbs that gets reviewed often like any other City would do.

Long before subways downtown there were once horses. Imagine they just blamed the legacy Politicians and stayed that way? No they invested for the future. We can do the same now by investing to grow a fair & integrated City for the future. The future will be shaped upon the type of investments we make today. Every City has past political problems & moves forward. I don't see how your statement does anything good to find a solution to develop a plan the problems we face in this City.

Thankfully we seem to have somewhat "responsible" Politicians trying to put an abrupt end to this childish divide & actually start investing effectively for the future. Hopefully more get on board instead of opposing everything that's not in their backyard.
 
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coffey1 said:
http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-s...y-critics-need-to-stand-down-says-mpp-duguid/

The MPP is basically telling THEM (the City's downtown Left media) to STFU and stop the ongoing divisive assault on Scarborough transit.
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"Duguid said the province is contributing $1.4 billion to have the subway reach Scarborough Town Centre, "
I thought the city voted $3,56 billion to pay for a subway. I thought the one stop subway costs $2 billion.
How does Duguid's $1.4 billion come into it?
 
bill r said:
"Duguid said the province is contributing $1.4 billion to have the subway reach Scarborough Town Centre, "
I thought the city voted $3,56 billion to pay for a subway. I thought the one stop subway costs $2 billion.
How does Duguid's $1.4 billion come into it?
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Eglinton crosstown & SSE with no subway stop subway = $3.56 approx. Supposedly
 
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coffey1 said:
Eglinton crosstown & SSE with no subway stop subway = $3.56 approx. Supposedly
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No. the $3.56 was City Council subway only!
Metrolinx (Duguid) is building the Eglinton LRT at $1.46 billion. nothing to do with subway.
They eliminated the Lawrence East subway from SSE to divert city money to build the extended LRT.

Recall in Aug-Nov 2014 two lanes of Eglinton from Midland to Brimley were removed for watermain refurbishment. The diversion of cars to caused major congestion on Lawrence and St. Clair.
The Eglinton LRT reduces Eglinton to 4 lanes and removes most left hand turns. All three roads Lawrence, Eglinton and St. Clair will be congested.

The extended LRT reduces Kingston Road to 4 lanes.
With added traffic congestion, Scarborough will take an economic hit, no economic benefit.
 
bill r said:
No. the $3.56 was City Council subway only!
Metrolinx (Duguid) is building the Eglinton LRT at $1.46 billion. nothing to do with subway.
They eliminated the Lawrence East subway from SSE to divert city money to build the extended LRT.

Recall in Aug-Nov 2014 two lanes of Eglinton from Midland to Brimley were removed for watermain refurbishment. The diversion of cars to caused major congestion on Lawrence and St. Clair.
The Eglinton LRT reduces Eglinton to 4 lanes and removes most left hand turns. All three roads Lawrence, Eglinton and St. Clair will be congested.

The extended LRT reduces Kingston Road to 4 lanes.
With added traffic congestion, Scarborough will take an economic hit, no economic benefit.
Click to expand...

The LRT lanes will move far more people than the car lanes ever did.
 
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