Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[syn]

I don't care what definition is selected if it's consistent. I really dislike when definitions change depending on the subject matter though. Agreed that USA is an outlier and that after spending significant time in Moscow or even Mexico City I don't find TTC peak service particularly frequent (or crowded) BUT UT does love to post metro maps of Chicago when complaining about lack of TTC rapid transit expansion.

I'm not sure I could choose a definition of rapid transit; waiting 10 minutes for an express doesn't seem so bad for a long trip. I'd toss the HongKong to Ghangzhou helicopter services into the Rapid Transit category (albeit not for the local middle-class commuter) which costs about ~$200 for the trip with service every 10 to 15 minutes. Beats the crap out of the fast ferry (50mph) and trains that run every 90 seconds with infinity stops.

I'd have to agree. And let's not forget, if trains come in intervals, you'd have a maximum wait of 10 minutes. Pretty reasonable for a direct trip downtown.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

People tend to not notice how much time passes while sitting on a train (unless they aren't moving). However people do and will notice how long they are standing on a platform for a train. Its like riding a bus, unless you are in an absolute rush you're probably sitting on the bus doing what ever it is you do, oblivious to the minutes ticking by. However if your waiting at a bus stop for 20 minutes for a bus, I bet you're passing back and forth furious. That's the human side of it. As someone who rely's on the SRT the thought of waiting 15 minutes for a train (compared to the 5 now) is very unappealing.

True I was just thinking of the aggregate wait. You wait to get on the srt, then at Kennedy, then again at bloor-yonge.

 

[Sakraycore]

Well I mean STC is a mall, so as long as the trains come on time one would think you can just walk around the mall for awhile and arrive at the precise time before the train comes. Also that RER station must be weather-proof at the least, with central heating. With all that I think we can live with the 10 minute wait minute.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Well I mean STC is a mall, so as long as the trains come on time one would think you can just walk around the mall for awhile and arrive at the precise time before the train comes. Also that RER station must be weather-proof at the least, with central heating. With all that I think we can live with the 10 minute wait minute.

Is schedule or headway based service better?

 

[Leo_Chan]

We actually don't know precisely what service levels we can expect from RER. Metrolinx approved a service plan last year, but earlier this week they indicated that they were reconfiguring it to accommodate SmartTrack. Generally expecting 10 to 15 min daytime frequencies is reasonable, however it looks like certain stations will have frequencies closer to 30 mins, because express trains will skip over them. We'll have to wait for a new service plan.

During the Verster's Toronto Region Board of Trade speech, he mentioned a possible service plan of 7 trains per hour, where 4 were local and 3 were express. He said this wasn't official, but only an idea.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Is schedule or headway based service better?

Headway is better for frequent services, while scheduled is better for low frequencies.

 

[syn]

True I was just thinking of the aggregate wait. You wait to get on the srt, then at Kennedy, then again at bloor-yonge.

I'd probably rather wait outside 10 minutes for a direct ride downtown, than endure a 6-7 minute underground ride on the SSE.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I'd probably rather wait outside 10 minutes for a direct ride downtown, than endure a 6-7 minute underground ride on the SSE.

With tunnels getting wifi, will it really be that bad? I mean, it would most certainly be more uncomfortable on a packed overground train than a half-full subway train.

 

[Sakraycore]

We need to know how packed it would get. If STC's ridership exceeds the capacity of RER, then it would be a no go.

 

[JSF-1]

^Before that we need to know what kind of trains are going to be used. Double-decker EMU's or Single deck EMU's. It is some what unfortunate that the GO system uses low-floor platforms since that inhibits both the passenger capacity of a train and the number of doors per car.

 

[Leo_Chan]

^Before that we need to know what kind of trains are going to be used. Double-decker EMU's or Single deck EMU's. It is some what unfortunate that the GO system uses low-floor platforms since that inhibits both the passenger capacity of a train and the number of doors per car.

All new GO stations are going to be built with level boarding. Don’t know about Caledonia, Mount Dennis, or Bloomington though.

 

[JSF-1]

So its just new GO Stations with high platforms? They aren't going to convert all the other stations? It seems strange and needlessly complicated to run both high level and low level trains on say the Stouffville Corridor and operate stations with 2 different platform heights.

 

[Leo_Chan]

So its just new GO Stations with high platforms? They aren't going to convert all the other stations? It seems strange and needlessly complicated to run both high level and low level trains on say the Stouffville Corridor and operate stations with 2 different platform heights.

They might convert them all eventually. They want GO to switch completely to level boarding, but it will probably need the proposed triple width level boarding platform 26/27/28 at Union Station first to test the benefits.

 

[crs1026]

So its just new GO Stations with high platforms? They aren't going to convert all the other stations? It seems strange and needlessly complicated to run both high level and low level trains on say the Stouffville Corridor and operate stations with 2 different platform heights.

Just to be clear - the new platforms will be level with the bilevel door sills, ie lower level boarding, not level with a single level car floor sill. No problem having a mix of existing and “level bilevel” platforms.

- Paul

 

[TheTigerMaster]

We need to know how packed it would get. If STC's ridership exceeds the capacity of RER, then it would be a no go.

^Before that we need to know what kind of trains are going to be used. Double-decker EMU's or Single deck EMU's. It is some what unfortunate that the GO system uses low-floor platforms since that inhibits both the passenger capacity of a train and the number of doors per car.

For various reasons, a single-deck EMU with four pairs of exits (like a subway train) will likely provide a greater maximum capacity than a double-decker EMU with two pairs of exits, as long as the trains are operated at higher frequencies.There's a reason why you'd be hard pressed to find any metro systems in the world running with double-decker trains.

But for lower frequency service, the double-deckers will provide greater capacity.