Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Rainforest]

OH WONDERFUL, it doesn’t matter if the cost fluctuates to $10 billion. Or $20B. Or whatever. Who cares how much it costs? Wonderful. The province will hear from us if this doesn’t get built. Let’s spend $50B on it.

The real question is where SSE's per km cost stands against the Relief Line's per km cost. As long as SSE remains cheaper per km, I strongly support SSE.

If there exists a physical condition that makes SSE substantially more expensive per km than the Relief line, then I might be willing to reconsider.

Otherwise, the city would be shooting itself in the foot if it chooses to abandon SSE. Same kind of nay arguments would be applied to kill the Relief line.

 

[micheal_can]

The real question is where SSE's per km cost stands against the Relief Line's per km cost. As long as SSE remains cheaper per km, I strongly support SSE.

If there exists a physical condition that makes SSE substantially more expensive per km than the Relief line, then I might be willing to reconsider.

Otherwise, the city would be shooting itself in the foot if it chooses to abandon SSE. Same kind of nay arguments would be applied to kill the Relief line.

Killing it is such a strong way of saying it. If they feel it is not a priority and instead do the DRL first, then that is not all that bad. Besides, the line is running fine.

 

[Rainforest]

^ Yes, discussed this in the Tory string. She has the power to sink Tory if there's a moderate candidate running against him, and the ScarSub situation is the torpedo to do it. There's a hundred other issues, but nothing this damning. Even the vast unwashed will 'get' that Tory and Council's hiding the report is evasive, malicious and completely self-serving.

Kredit to Keesmaat!

I doubt this story can torpedo Tory's re-election, or even significantly affect his vote count. He can simply say he supports SSE despite the cost escalation. Yes some voters will dislike that answer; just as many, and probably more, will be pleased. And even more, won't care either way.

I feel he is overplaying his hand if he is trying to hide this report until after elections, for no good reason from any point of view.

 

[Rainforest]

Killing it is such a strong way of saying it. If they feel it is not a priority and instead do the DRL first, then that is not all that bad. Besides, the line is running fine.

SRT is running "fine" because extra funding has been placed to keep it running. Anyway, it is past its official life span. It has to be replaced with something, and it has to be replaced in the near future.

If we were talking about building a subway in a new corridor, I'd say no suburban expansions until the Relief Line is build.

In this particular case though, we have to choose between building SSE, or building something that still costs 70% of SSE but makes the residents unhappy and causes grave divisions.

It should be noted that many voters do not want their taxes to be used for DRL, SSE, or any other transit project. They just don't take public transit, period. Fortunately those voters do not form a majority, but they form a strong minority.

Now if we start pitching the regions of the city one against another, the opposition to transit spending will automatically gain majority. Any major transit project will be supported by some parts of the city, but opposed by other parts that gain nothing from this particular line or extension, and all cut-the-spending folks.

 

[micheal_can]

SRT is running "fine" because extra funding has been placed to keep it running. Anyway, it is past its official life span. It has to be replaced with something, and it has to be replaced in the near future.

If we were talking about building a subway in a new corridor, I'd say no suburban expansions until the Relief Line is build.

In this particular case though, we have to choose between building SSE, or building something that still costs 70% of SSE but makes the residents unhappy and causes grave divisions.

It should be noted that many voters do not want their taxes to be used for DRL, SSE, or any other transit project. They just don't take public transit, period. Fortunately those voters do not form a majority, but they form a strong minority.

Now if we start pitching the regions of the city one against another, the opposition to transit spending will automatically gain majority. Any major transit project will be supported by some parts of the city, but opposed by other parts that gain nothing from this particular line or extension, and all cut-the-spending folks.

People are stupid. They want more services, not pay more for it. You can't do that.

 

[Rainforest]

People are stupid. They want more services, not pay more for it. You can't do that.

People are never ideal, and institutions created by people aren't ideal either.

The best response to that fact is trying to do best possible under the circumstances.

 

[OneCity]

I doubt this story can torpedo Tory's re-election, or even significantly affect his vote count. He can simply say he supports SSE despite the cost escalation. Yes some voters will dislike that answer; just as many, and probably more, will be pleased. And even more, won't care either way.

I feel he is overplaying his hand if he is trying to hide this report until after elections, for no good reason from any point of view.

If a stronger Dowtown Left candidate runs many Ford supporters likely do what the Dowtown Left supporters did last election and plug their nose with a vote for Tory as the lesser of two evils.

If the Left campaign is all about TOcore Projects and delaying transit In Scarborough then more than Tory likely runs away. If the Province uploads the subway file from the City, which extinguishes by far the biggest rallying call against Tory then he easily run away and walks backwards to victory

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I doubt this story can torpedo Tory's re-election, or even significantly affect his vote count.

Tory must feel differently since he’s trying so hard to keep Torontonians in the dark with regards to the pricing of the proposal.

 

[pstogios]

If a stronger Dowtown Left candidate runs many Ford supporters likely do what the Dowtown Left supporters did last election and plug their nose with a vote for Tory as the lesser of two evils.

If the Left campaign is all about TOcore Projects and delaying transit In Scarborough then more than Tory likely runs away. If the Province uploads the subway file from the City, which extinguishes by far the biggest rallying call against Tory then he easily run away and walks backwards to victory

You know there are people that are left-of-center in their politics in Scarborough right?

And you know that there are people that live in the old City of Toronto that are conservative in their political views, right?

Please stop using nonsense labels and fomenting divisions between groups of people based purely on where they live.

I know that is convenient to feed the "Everybody Vs Scarborough" scenario you constantly push, but in reality there is no such conspiracy nor are there easily delineated lines between political views based on geographic location within the city.

 

[Rainforest]

Neethan Shan, an NDPer recently elected in Scarborough, supports the subway.

 

[Rainforest]

Tory must feel differently since he’s trying so hard to keep Torontonians in the dark with regards to the pricing of the proposal.

I suppose he does feel differently. I'm just puzzled why. This issue doesn't seem to carry enough weight to offset his incumbent advantage.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Wynne can cancel this and get away with it, that's the thing. What are the PC's going to say at this point? Brown imploding was the worst thing for this project and Sheppard East.

 

[pstogios]

Neethan Shan, an NDPer recently elected in Scarborough, supports the subway.

Precisely.

This confuses OneCity. How can there be lefties in Scarborough, I thought they were all part of the “Downtown Left”?

Councillor Ainslie is a self-described conservative from Scarborough yet he does not support the SSE.

Lines can’t so easily be drawn so it would be nice to stop arbitrarily drawing them up so as to push forward an “us-vs-them” paranoia.

 

[OneCity]

Wynne can cancel this and get away with it, that's the thing. What are the PC's going to say at this point? Brown imploding was the worst thing for this project and Sheppard East.

The Ontario Liberals do well Scarborough. This kinda of move wouldn't benefit them or go over well in Scarborough now or moving forward. They also need to replace a couple existing incumbents here and they don't stand to see much tangible gain in Downtown support off such a move. Everyone of these Scarborough MPP's are "subway champion" and to get back in those seats that will continue.

While the Brown saga indeed helps the Liberals they are not safe enough to pull this maneuver off and I don't think its worthwhile to begin with. If Ford happens to win on the Conservative end its an even bigger issue than Brown, Elliott is also from Durham and her Husband was a big promoter of all things East and Mulroney will likely keep the Brown quo. Also they need to get moving on to Richmond Hill after the DRL.

Neethan Shan, an NDPer recently elected in Scarborough, supports the subway.

This is the dose of reality. An NDP subway booster in the heart of Malvern in the midst 99% democratic support across all of Scarborough. The appetite to cancel the subway outright only exists in the Downtown Left council/media of the City. Otherwise It's either move on, or add the stops and deal with Sheppard next.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The Ontario Liberals do well Scarborough and this wouldn't go over well now or moving forward. Slim to none

The PCs are simply not an option right now. If the costs get two high people in Sudbury and London will not pay for this. They can't sell this outside the GTA.