Voltz
Senior Member
It's not garbage just because you disagree with it.
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It's not garbage just because you disagree with it.
micheal_can
Senior Member
It is garbage because there is no productivity in going over the arguments every day. The city has decided subway. Drop the LRT!
nfitz
Superstar
If the media and other politicians are still talking about LRT, I don't see any reason we shouldn't discuss it. It's not quite the dead horse we see in some other threads, with the complaining about building subway and not LRT into Vaughan, and going on about the TTC not running the Yonge-Danforth and Yonge-Bloor service any more (despite it not being possible since they started constructing the Spadina subway in the early 1970s).
And don't forget the history here.
- First it was decided to upgrade the line and stations to allow for longer trains of newer vehicles, using the current technology.
- Then it was going to be an LRT from Kennedy to Malvern Town Centre
- Then just LRT from Kennedy to Sheppard
- Then LRT and part of the Eglinton line, but terminate at Scarborough Centre to meet the Sheppard subway extension.
- Then back to a separate LRT line to Sheppard.
- Then it's a 3-stop subway extension to Sheppard
- Then it's 1-stop subway extension to Sheppard.
syn
Senior Member
But they aren't...and it wouldn't.
You're pointing out something that isn't accurate at all.
If there were just two stops in the 6km between Kipling and Runnymede instead of 4, then it's ridership would skyrocket too.
They aren't adding anymore stops because there isn't enough money nor riders to justify it.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
It is stupid to make the same arguments over and over (especially when everyone knows where one stands).
pman
Senior Member
It's true that SSE has passed some significant milestone Council votes. It's also true that it's not completely funded, costs escalate with very fresh assessment, and Council has yet to approve a final plan. Consequently SSE is still subject to public debate. It would be strange if UT shut down a forum on a controversial project that will blow a major fraction of our limited transit investment budget and that has yet to receive final approval from Council. If you don't like reading the same arguments over and over, you could simply stop reading the thread until the design is finalized, approved and funded and construction has started. But that might take a while.
narduch
Senior Member
You must be new to internet discussion forums.
Besides it comes across as wanting to silence opposing viewpoints.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Kipling would get Islington's riders, Runnymede would get the rest: Royal York, Old Mill, Jane. Not sure which ridership would exactly "skyrocket."
There would be quite enough riders at Lawrence East, and even moreso at Sheppard / McCowan if it was the terminus. I'm not sure about Brimley / Eglinton.
The reason they dropped those stations is the shortage of funds, and in case of Lawrence East, the city's refusal to study cut-n-cover construction that could make the tunnel less deep and the station less expensive.
Rainforest
Senior Member
That's partly true, but it should be up to the posters themselves, not moderators, to limit their posts to either new information or new ideas, and refrain from beating old dead horses.
syn
Senior Member
I think Kipling would get a lot of Royal York riders, but the point stands - one of those stations would see a massive boost in ridership.
Scarborough doesn't have the density to support it.
That's why comparable numbers between Kipling and STC on this extension make for a poor argument.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
Good thing Runnymede, Jane, Old Mill, Royal York, Islington and Kipling were built during the golden age of subway expansion.
Notable too how Kipling was a one-stop extension (as were Kennedy and Downsview) yet you didn't hear half the uproar about one-stop extensions back then as we do now.
One wonders if the public would be so against the Scarborough expansion had the Province beefed up its funding commitment and got the line routed all the way to Malvern with stops at Brimley/Eglinton, Lawrence, the Town Centre, Bellamy, Progress Campus, and Markham/Sheppard en route. At least then the criticism that the LRT plan has more stops and ergo is superior would be stymied.
TOareaFan
Superstar
But wouldn't the cost (which would be much higher) become an even bigger issue then?
Hopkins123
Senior Member
Well, the optics would at least look better.
$5 billion for a single new station or approximately $10 billion for 7-8, depending on whether the terminus is near Neilson or Morningside Hts.
The City/Province/Feds could then close the file on Scarborough expansion at least for a generation and focus on other priorities.
The greatest fault of the current plan is that it limits coverage of rapid transit to just the Town Centre and forces everyone to transfer there. A multiple-stopping subway makes spending money on Bloor-Danforth expansion more worthwhile, and even helps the DRL in a way because travelers from Sheppard East, Finch East and Steeles East instead of going across on buses to Yonge will be encouraged to stay on the train till Pape Stn where they'd transfer onto the DRL to head downtown.
TOareaFan
Superstar
It is my opinion that the optics would look at, best, just as bad but possibly worse....you would be justifying (using your numbers....no desire to get into a big cost debate here) spending $5B to build a subway to a station with ridership numbers at the low end of subway level...by saying "don't worry, we are gonna spend another $5B building subway out to a bunch of other stops that won't (and likely never will) have more than LRT type ridership numbers.....that looks worse to me.
Rainforest
Senior Member
That would depend on how the bus routes were configured. IMO, it would be logical to send the Islington buses to Kipling Stn, while Royal York buses would go to Runnymede. Royal York is closer to Kipling than to Runnymede, but the difference is not that large. Since there majority of riders would want to travel to/from downtown, it would be more logical to go to a station that is closer to downtown.
The combined Kipling + Islington would be fairly similar to STC, while the combined Royal York + Old Mill + Jane + Runnymede would be fairly similar to Kennedy Stn. The two service areas can generate similar total number of rides.