Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[syn]

So to "botch" it (Toronto signature move in Public Transit) was a better solution to you? I doubt that extending the subway in 1985 dollars to STC would have ended being more expensive than what we're about to do with the 1 stop subway. Stations would have been at Eglington & McCowan, Lawrence & McCowan and STC. Today. we'd be talking crossing the 401 instead of starting from scratch at nearly $5B (most likely more) for the 1 stop subway.

Not liking the 1 stop subway doesn't mean you can't admit that it should have been done right from the get go in the 80s. (Sound City planning + subway extension)

Today's mess is decades of incompetence in the planning process.

A subway in Scarborough is poor planning.

There was no need for more subway stations in Scarborough during the 80s. 30 years later, there still isn't.

"Sound planning" would be building subways where density supports them, not where they're politically advantageous.

 

[nfitz]

Subsequent uses of technology (GO ALRT across Finch Hydro corridor, Kipling to Pearson, Vancouver SkyTrain, Montreal REM) see the benefits.

Montreal REM? Hmm "Each vehicle will be approximately 80m-long and 3m-wide, and have a maximum axle load of 14.5t. The automated trains will have a maximum speed of 100km/h and will be powered by electricity supplied through 1,500V catenary."

That's not the same type of vehicle at all. Too wide, too long, too heavy, too fast, and no third rail. Is there some change to the plan I haven't heard about?

 

[BurlOak]

Montreal REM? Hmm "Each vehicle will be approximately 80m-long and 3m-wide, and have a maximum axle load of 14.5t. The automated trains will have a maximum speed of 100km/h and will be powered by electricity supplied through 1,500V catenary."

That's not the same type of vehicle at all. Too wide, too long, too heavy, too fast, and no third rail. Is there some change to the plan I haven't heard about?

Sorry, I have not read much on this - but many early headlines and articles I read were misleading.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...al-embraces-public-public-infrastructure.html

The Montreal project promises to develop the world’s third longest automated railway which is largely based on Vancouver’s Skytrain concept,

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/montreal-skytrain-train-reseau-electrique-metropolitain

Montreal's new $5.5-billion, 67 km train system modeled after Vancouver's SkyTrain

 

[kEiThZ]

Since I was too young or didn't live in Toronto. For those that remember. Was there substantial development at NYCC when the subway reached Finch in 1974? I recall Yonge North from my teen years in the 1990s. And I feel like most development has taken place in the 2000s or later.

To me that would indicate that mistakes were made not extending the subway to Scarborough in the 1980s. That's neither here nor there now.

But potential is why I don't mind the TYSSE to Vaughan. We'll all be better off if there's more transit oriented development and less driving in the region.

 

[BurlOak]

I recall it starting in the mid to late 1980's, but then took a 10 year break because of the 90's recession and aftermath.

 

[OneCity]

Looks like PB & Tory have partnered up for the Elections

https://www.ontariopc.ca/toronto_an...they_can_depend_on_in_pc_leader_patrick_brown

Smarttrack too
https://twitter.com/OntarioPCParty/status/859044189622980608/photo/1

 

[nfitz]

Not seeing how they differentiate themselves from the Liberals then. It's not like the Liberals are doing anything to slow it down!

 

[OneCity]

Not seeing how they differentiate themselves from the Liberals then. It's not like the Liberals are doing anything to slow it down!

It's confirmation SSE is getting built!

The biggest news is the Cons partnered with Tory who has solid support in TO. That's another boost as the Libs have obviously tuned the back on Tory and may ready to step away after a nice run. Given Torys decent support downtown this could possibly hurt the Liberal stronghold. Election time will show if Tory's full plan has been supported, but looks like they have joined forces for the most part.

 

[CapitalSeven]

I am keen to understand how "getting shovels in the ground on the Scarborough subway project [will] reduce congestion plaguing the GTA."

 

[nfitz]

It's confirmation SSE is getting built!

Well, it raises the odds at least.

 

[OneCity]

I am keen to understand how "getting shovels in the ground on the Scarborough subway project [will] reduce congestion plaguing the GTA."

Because the sooner Toronto can move on from bickering about Scarborough Centre the sooner we can then be more vocal about other projects and more importantly long term funding... It will relieve congestion all right

 

[muller877]

It's confirmation SSE is getting built!

The biggest news is the Cons partnered with Tory who has solid support in TO. That's another boost as the Libs have obviously tuned the back on Tory and may ready to step away after a nice run. Given Torys decent support downtown this could possibly hurt the Liberal stronghold. Election time will show if Tory's full plan has been supported, but looks like they have joined forces for the most part.

Tory has no love for the right wing of the PC party. Very interesting that Brown has made amends. Beyond the support for transit it bodes well for center-right voters who are afraid of the religious group in the party.

...or at least the appearance that Brown is moderate (and image is everything in politics).

 

[rbt]

It's confirmation SSE is getting built!

Beware spending promises that do not include a commitment to a timeline.

I have no doubt PCs will build it but it may not start until the end of their second term; you know, after the budget is balanced (tax reform will be priority #1). Wynne is already leaving 2020 through 2022 on challenging ground for balancing the budget so any kind of tax reform will double down on that. Even worse if they shift to a capital-from-current model to shock Ontarians with a surprise "Wynne deficit" (around $7B) under that accounting model to allow for an austerity budget. And all of that is before potential recession concerns (like a collapse in GTA real-estate prices).

Capital dollars for transit in the GTA will be reduced (likely in favour of a highway program instead) and I'm not convinced other demands for transit money like the Barrie Line (which drives deep into 2014 blue territory) will have its timeline sacrificed.

For reference, current provincial transit spending is about 2x that of the highway program. It's typically the other way around. If PCs go back to traditional transportation spending ratio, then transit spending will decrease by about 70% and Metrolinx can eat that up for 4 years just finishing already tendered projects.


In short, Brown has enough wiggle room that any transit promises made without a timeline commitment should be viewed as 2nd term items; so 2035? completion for SSE. A clever journalist or SSE advocacy group would push hard to get several quotes stating he's committed to the current SSE timeline, and repeat them often enough that even his Grey-Bruce voters will see it negatively if he changes it.

 

[syn]

Kind of silly to suggest the Liberals aren't providing support. For all the negative things the Liberals have done, there has been significant transit investment - this included a fully funded Scarborough LRT, and now billions for a subway extension in Scarborough.

It's not the Liberal's fault Tory is pushing such a foolish idea.

 

[Sakraycore]

It kind of seems like the SSE is getting built whether Liberal or PC gets elected, which is good because Scarborough needs the subway above all else.