Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TransitBart]

This is so true. When people say that most trip in Scarborough are local, that a kid taking the bus to high school. Or maybe it's a parent taking the bus a few stops to buy groceries. Whether that parent or kid saves 5 minutes does not really matter even though the trip became 50% shorter. (and lower frequency of LRT vs bus almost cancels out the time savings.
It is the trip to the core that matters. Turning a 90 minute trip to 70 minutes may only be a 22% decrease, but is significant in absolute terms and makes a difference.

Everyone here seems to forget that people shape their lives to be convenient or manageable. The trips are local because a trip elsewhere in the city is truly brutal.

A trip downtown can involve two buses before you get to a subway line, and even a trip to East York involves three buses. I joined this forum because I noticed that in my office, people that we were trying to hire, and long-time employees were making employment decisions based on transit. From Scarborough - say Malvern - to East York is a hardship commute.

I think that the studies are nonsense, and large number of the members' (here) obeisance to "expert" opinion and studies is nonsense too. If people aren't doing it (say, commuting downtown), you can conclude that they don't want to, but you could more reasonably conclude that it's too bloody inconvenient and that is the reason that no one is doing it. To conclude that no one wants to do it and therefore we can't justify the rest of the Sheppard subway or other pseudo-scientific nonsense is slavish adherence to numbers without analyzing why the numbers are what they are.

My personal experience says no one can be bothered to make the commute. We know that Scarborough is truly under-served in a significant way and the entire former borough is a giant transit desert which perpetuates the socio-economic situation there. How come we aren't cheering on any great gentrifying nieghbourhoods in Scarborough the way that the Junction or Eglington West - in three to four years - will look? Simple. There are none. It's not a place people are rushing to like other areas of the city and I think that transit plays a large part in that decision.

 

[Euphoria]

While I think the Scarborough subway is exorbitant and that it's better served with LRT, I appreciate your impassioned support of transit in Scarborough. What you're talking about is city building and we need to do more of it. We should have subways criss-crossing the city. I think most people on here are just sick of the half measures. Let's have infrastructure suitable to a city of our caliber.

 

[TransitBart]

While I think the Scarborough subway is exorbitant and that it's better served with LRT, I appreciate your impassioned support of transit in Scarborough. What you're talking about is city building and we need to do more of it. We should have subways criss-crossing the city. I think most people on here are just sick of the half measures. Let's have infrastructure suitable to a city of our caliber.

Correct. Perhaps at least two of us are speaking the same language. I started my life as a west-end guy, but I can see how hard it is to get around the east end of the city.

This is not a crowd that is particularly partial to automobile transportation. If I lived in Scarborough and had to take three buses to get to Roy Thompson Hall or Massey Hall, there are few choices that do not involve an automobile or a trip of 90+ minutes. If your dream job is in the Hwy 400 corridor from 401 north...or if Humber College next to Etobicoke General has the course you want and you live on Old Finch in Scarborough?

In the west end, you can get from Islington/Royal York stations to Union in 40 to 60 minutes depending on the time of day. The time from the east is probably on average 50% more. It`s not even necessary to go as far as Scarborough. Try and get anywhere from Flemingdon Park in a time that leaves you a life with your kids or spouse, or just a life.

I think the greatest economic leveller for the city will prove to be higher order rapid transit and I hope we get on with it past what we have achieved thus far.

It's going to take some risk and a great deal of vision.

 

[W. K. Lis]

How a new breed of activist is damaging economic growth, one project at a time - See more at: http://business.financialpost.com/features/arrested-development#sthash.j2AkD4Pf.dpuf

 

[salsa]

How a new breed of activist is damaging economic growth, one project at a time - See more at: http://business.financialpost.com/features/arrested-development#sthash.j2AkD4Pf.dpuf

And this is related to Scarborough transit because.....?

 

[sixrings]

If you're going to compare travel times between the east and west shouldn you at least compare with similar distances to bloor/danforth and yonge. Instead your east comparison (old finch) is much further away then islington or royal York. Either you can compare travel times between say Victoria Park vs islington or rexdale versus malvern.

Correct. Perhaps at least two of us are speaking the same language. I started my life as a west-end guy, but I can see how hard it is to get around the east end of the city.

This is not a crowd that is particularly partial to automobile transportation. If I lived in Scarborough and had to take three buses to get to Roy Thompson Hall or Massey Hall, there are few choices that do not involve an automobile or a trip of 90+ minutes. If your dream job is in the Hwy 400 corridor from 401 north...or if Humber College next to Etobicoke General has the course you want and you live on Old Finch in Scarborough?

In the west end, you can get from Islington/Royal York stations to Union in 40 to 60 minutes depending on the time of day. The time from the east is probably on average 50% more. It`s not even necessary to go as far as Scarborough. Try and get anywhere from Flemingdon Park in a time that leaves you a life with your kids or spouse, or just a life.

I think the greatest economic leveller for the city will prove to be higher order rapid transit and I hope we get on with it past what we have achieved thus far.

It's going to take some risk and a great deal of vision.

 

[W. K. Lis]

And this is related to Scarborough transit because.....?

The improvements/upgrades/replacements/whatever-is-next keeps being delayed with more changes or interruptions from just about everyone.

 

[Euphoria]

The knee jerk opposition to everything movement is a cultural trend of suspicion towards development. It's always existed right back to the Luddites. I think the hyper-regulatory attitude, in the end, is a luxury of the elites. Canada has been at the top of the Human Development Index for so long that it's easy to forget that most of our wealth is underpinned by development, especially in natural resources.

 

[amnesiajune]

If you're going to compare travel times between the east and west shouldn you at least compare with similar distances to bloor/danforth and yonge. Instead your east comparison (old finch) is much further away then islington or royal York. Either you can compare travel times between say Victoria Park vs islington or rexdale versus malvern.

Travel times are still much worse from Scarborough to downtown than anywhere else. Neilson & McLevin is about as far from Union Station (22 km) as Finch & Humberline. A rush hour inbound trip is about ten minutes quicker from Finch & Humberline, and the TYSSE and Finch West LRT will make it significantly faster. With the trip from Malvern, the LRT wouldn't be much of an improvement even if it's extended to Sheppard, mainly because of the useless stops it makes in the middle of industrial parks. As it currently stands, it's actually faster (on paper) to take the 131E all the way to Kennedy than to make the extra transfer and take the SRT.

 

[sixrings]

I grew up at midland and finch so I am familiar with scarboroughs transit issues but my wife now works at rexdale and 27 area. For years she had to commute from her work office to downtown via ttc for school. It was no picnic either. Scarborough is worse. Much worse though I think is subjective. Either way people act as if all of Etobicoke is transit friendly when in reality it is just the section of bloor which has subway.

 

[amnesiajune]

The subway does go almost all the way out to the western end of the city though. And Etobicoke also benefits a lot from the upcoming TYSSE stations at Keele/Finch and Jane/Steeles and the Eglinton LRT.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I grew up at midland and finch so I am familiar with scarboroughs transit issues but my wife now works at rexdale and 27 area. For years she had to commute from her work office to downtown via ttc for school. It was no picnic either. Scarborough is worse. Much worse though I think is subjective. Either way people act as if all of Etobicoke is transit friendly when in reality it is just the section of bloor which has subway.

The worst commute times in the city are actually found in northwestern Etobicoke.

 

[sixrings]

I'll include eglinton when it at least makes it to renforth. If you are suggesting that travel from the west is easier because of the spadina line then you should be advocating for the drl long not this express gravy train

The subway does go almost all the way out to the western end of the city though. And Etobicoke also benefits a lot from the upcoming TYSSE stations at Keele/Finch and Jane/Steeles and the Eglinton LRT.

 

[Cobra]

Just spend the god damn extra and convert Sheppard to LRT and make it a through service. Also makes it a tad cheaper to go west if they want to continue on surface past Downsview.

I can't believe the choice is subway or LRT with transfer.

No one has the political appetite to shutdown the subway for years. Like it or not, Sheppard Subway is used a lot during rush hour and even off peak.

 

[Hopkins123]

No one has the political appetite to shutdown the subway for years. Like it or not, Sheppard Subway is used a lot during rush hour and even off peak.

There's zero point to conversion regardless if the majority of the line is going to be grade-separated anyway. Downsview to Yonge has to be grade-separated (Sheppard's too narrow through this stretch to accommodate surface tracks and then there's the West Don bridge to contend with). Between Don Mills and Victoria Park has to be below-grade due to the Hwy 404 crossing. East of Kennedy, if dipping down to the Town Centre, it could easy well follow it's own elevated guideway there. To swing back up to Sheppard @Progress it can follow an EL as well (same as the proposed SLRT alignment).

This only leaves the 4 km segment between Vic Park and Kennedy as a conceivable surface ROW. They can't find $1 billion or so somewhere to tunnel this short segment? This is how it should be gone about if the people in charge are serious about Sheppard expansion, not a Fraken-LRT line from Humber College to Morningside that'd take hours to traverse from end to end.