Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[innsertnamehere]

I'm saying that they would say that they want subways on those routes, but they would never build them. We would get a buried eglinton LRT to Kennedy, and maybe a Yonge extension. And lots of talk of "eventually" making a Shepard or finch subway. I would expect GO stagnation as Hudak would drag Metrolinx through hell and back, and possibly take the subways off of torontos hands which would devastate the TTC operating budget. I find a conservative government getting power in the next 3 years to be a very negative outlook on transit. After that, transit would likely have advanced enough that a lot of it would be untouchable.

 

[M II A II R II K]

An alternative that would be more likely to achieve is to not bother living in Scarborough if you don't have a car, then they can stick their botched transit planning up their a$$es!

 

[Dan416]

??? They wouldn't even if Bloor-Danforth was extended to Sheppard & McCowan. They'd still have to transfer at Bloor-Yonge. If Eglinton is a thru-line, it just changes the transfer location from Bloor-Yonge to Eglinton-Yonge.

The key to all of it though is elevating Eglinton East for a 100% grade-separated rapid transit line, which is mainly what I'm advocating for now. It's a much more realistic request at this point.

TBH I consider Bloor-Yonge dt, that's what I mean by one seat ride. So if you want to get downtown from STC, now you're doing two transfers (Kennedy and Bloor-Yonge).

 

[innsertnamehere]

I'm fine with the transfer as it will now be super simple. All it will be is a simple staircase down one level to reach the subway, no huge 3 level jog up and down stairs like it is now.

 

[gweed123]

TBH I consider Bloor-Yonge dt, that's what I mean by one seat ride. So if you want to get downtown from STC, now you're doing two transfers (Kennedy and Bloor-Yonge).

It's the periphery of the downtown area, but it certainly isn't the CBD, which is where most people are headed. If it were, you wouldn't see ridership continue to increase after Wellesley.

And I'm not advocating for a forced transfer at Kennedy. In fact, I'm arguing for just the opposite. It's just that a B-D extension to Sheppard & McCowan is looking less and less likely, so I'm turning to the next best option: elevating Eglinton East so that we can at least have an interlined Eglinton-Scarborough LRT, which would provide a 1 seat ride to Yonge St along a completely grade-separated rapid transit line.

Not as good as a Bloor-Danforth extension, but not exactly a bad option either. And certainly a better alternative than the current proposal to have them be 2 independent lines.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Elevating eglinton east could also be a cheaper alternative to rebuilding bloor yonge.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Not to mention it would be impractical to rebuild Bloor/Yonge unless they do all the work over a long weekend. Better to use the Markham Line all the way downtown with a split off track to go to STC and beyond. No Kennedy transfer and perhaps no TTC.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I have to see what plans they will be presenting for the rebuild at Kennedy Station. Have seen only the initial EA, but it could change or be better presented when comes time for the individual Kennedy station consultation.

Will the Eglinton Crosstown station and the Scarborough RT station be side-by-side, end-to-end, connected, or not? Could the Eglinton and Scarborough be one line or two separate lines (similar to 501/507)? Could the trains run through during rush hours or non-rush hours only? Could the trains run through on weekends and evenings only (similar to 502/503/22A)? Maybe the Kennedy Station could be a short-turn station, depending upon demand?

 

[44 North]

I have to see what plans they will be presenting for the rebuild at Kennedy Station. Have seen only the initial EA, but it could change or be better presented when comes time for the individual Kennedy station consultation.

Will the Eglinton Crosstown station and the Scarborough RT station be side-by-side, end-to-end, connected, or not? Could the Eglinton and Scarborough be one line or two separate lines (similar to 501/507)? Could the trains run through during rush hours or non-rush hours only? Could the trains run through on weekends and evenings only (similar to 502/503/22A)? Maybe the Kennedy Station could be a short-turn station, depending upon demand?

This would provide important information to work with. When will they start consulting on Kennedy's layout?
And I think with proper, computerized signalling and transit control, trains could short-turn or run-through with received up-to-the-minute ridership data and commuting patterns.

 

[gweed123]

If there is still a potential to have the design of Kennedy Station changed (hasn't even gone to public consultation yet), then there may still be a chance to change the layout of Eglinton East in general. I mean, if Kennedy isn't set in stone, then presumably neither is most of Eglinton East.

 

[Solid Snake]

I wouldn't be surprise if Eglinton East gets elevated either by Metrolinx' s own will or the election of a conservative government.

When Ford wanted to bury everything, Metrolinx did offer elevated trains on Eglinton. If the conservative came to power I could see Metrolinx offer that alternative again and the cancel cash from Sheppard LRT could extend the Sheppard subway to Victoria Park or beyond if they want.


Elevated trains: Metrolinx offers subway alternative

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/12/20/elevated-trains-metrolinx-offers-subway-alternative/

Metrolinx, Ontario’s regional transportation agency, has tossed another option into Toronto’s transit rethink: elevated train corridors.

Tasked with coming up with a plan that scraps surface transit routes, Metrolinx CEO Bruce McCuaig and chairman Rob Prichard met with Mayor Rob Ford’s chief of staff, Nick Kouvalis, his director of policy, Mark Towhey, and TTC chairwoman Karen Stintz on Friday at City Hall. Mr. McCuaig called it a “constructive and collegial†exchange.

The message from the Mayor’s office was that “minimizing the impact on traffic†(also known as preserving road space for vehicles) is “very important†to him; Metrolinx said there are alternatives to tunnelling underground.

“In some cases there might be a wide enough right of way to accommodate an LRT†while maintaining the same number of traffic lanes, Mr. McCuaig said in an interview.

“Another way of potentially addressing it is going up, instead of going down. We owe it to the people to look at all the alternatives.â€

And while it’s clear that the Mayor is intent on building subways, he is also prepared to hear Metrolinx out.

“The Mayor’s office is certainly looking forward to working with Metrolinx and the TTC about the Mayor’s priorities to build subways,†said Adrienne Batra, Mr. Ford’s press secretary. “There is also a good opportunity here for there to be other options presented and we look forward to hearing what those are.â€

Mr. Ford’s priority is extending the Sheppard subway from Downsview to Scarborough Town Centre.

Metrolinx is pushing for the Eglinton Crosstown, a light-rail line across the city that would include a 10-kilometre stretch underground, which is valued for its “regional†benefits. Mr. McCuaig said an Eglinton line would relieve the congested Yonge line and link up with GO Transit hubs.

“We’re hearing that that project has some support from the city as well,†said Mr. McCuaig.

Ms. Stintz said she expects to see a revised plan, with various options, by the end of January.

She said it is premature to judge the viability of building an elevated line. Ultimately, any changes to the plan will have to consider the limited funds available from the province, which is paying for most of the new transit, and meeting the Mayor’s target of completing a Sheppard line in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games.

The provincial government had put up $3.1-billion for the first phase of transit expansion, and is firm that there isn’t any more. Some of that money has been spent; the TTC and Metrolinx have also signed $1.3-billion worth of contracts that will cost money to break.

Mr. McCuaig said an elevated line is “less expensive than going underground†but could not give a per-kilometre estimate because it depends on the site. “When you look at places like Vancouver, they were able to integrate the SkyTrain and the Canada Line very effectively in the urban environment,†said Mr. McCuaig.

Toronto has some experience with the technology: The aging Scarborough RT operates on stretches of elevated track. Richard Soberman, a transportation consultant who was vice-president of the company that supplied the parts for the RT in the 1970s, said the city considered at the time putting the elevated tracks along the less populated stretches of Eglinton Avenue. The community objected to the “visual intrusion,†he said.

“I think it would be a tough sell in the modern era when people are a lot more concerned with the urban landscape,â said Mr. Soberman. “But it’s not something that shouldn’t be considered.â€

National Post

 

[Dan416]

I'd be very supportive of building Eglinton East elevated. Actually I'd be very supportive of building Eglinton West elevated. But if you actually do elevate both, it really does beg the question why they didn't use subway rolling stock, which is cheaper.

That said, I doubt we'll get both ends elevated. The Pearson portion is postponed indefinitely, and the East portion may or may not be elevated.

But at least they're actually discussing the option of elevated. But it does ultimately boil down to cost. If Eglinton East is elevated, are there any stations/stops that could be scrapped?

 

[gweed123]

I'd be very supportive of building Eglinton East elevated. Actually I'd be very supportive of building Eglinton West elevated. But if you actually do elevate both, it really does beg the question why they didn't use subway rolling stock, which is cheaper.

Rolling stock may be cheaper, but you'd probably need larger stations, and more heavy duty support columns/guideways. If they were starting the planning over again from scratch, it may be worth looking into. But given how much work is done, a grade-separated LRT line is still a pretty good option.

That said, I doubt we'll get both ends elevated. The Pearson portion is postponed indefinitely, and the East portion may or may not be elevated.

The western stretch is a perfect candidate for elevated. Use the Richview corridor, and since it's elevated all of the recreational uses and naturalized area can be maintained. I think it would be pretty nice to be on an elevated LRT and look to either side and see trees for a stretch of the line.

But at least they're actually discussing the option of elevated. But it does ultimately boil down to cost. If Eglinton East is elevated, are there any stations/stops that could be scrapped?

Yup, exactly. And yes there are several mid-block stations that can be removed, and several other stations who's locations can be moved slightly to cover some of the gap lost by the mid-block stations (thinking around Vic Park-Pharmacy specifically).

 

[diminutive]

Rolling stock may be cheaper, but you'd probably need larger stations, and more heavy duty support columns/guideways. If they were starting the planning over again from scratch, it may be worth looking into. But given how much work is done, a grade-separated LRT line is still a pretty good option.

Couldn't stations and support guideways generally be smaller with non-LRV rolling stock? I was under the impression that, all things being equal, low floor LRVs tend to be heavier than typical rapid transit rolling stock due to crash safety features and less usable space in a low-floor layout.

I mean, I'm kind of agnostic on this topic; I'm sure the at-grade option will work perfectly well for Eglinton East. I'm just a bit frustrated by the omerta transit agencies seem to have against elevated rail in these contexts. Would it have killed Metrolinx/TTC to consider a Canada Line type system earlier in the planning process?

 

[DKsan]

Maybe it would be garish in a few year, but couldn't you make the columns less ugly by painting them? Heck, community participation.