Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[bobbob911]

The problem is one that if you look historically houses were once much smaller in size. People would raise children in 900 square foot bungalows in my area. Children would share rooms together on bunk beds. That was a common thing. Now people want all their children to have their own room, the man to have a man cave and who ever the cook is to have something that belongs on the food network for a kitchen. Almost all the homes in my area are from pre 1920 and I am pretty sure they all at one time had families. It was in the 1950s when everyone started to go after the leave it to beaver white picket fence suburban house.

Historically people didn't have lots of things they do now. Also, there is a huge lack of multi-bedroom (ie 3+ bedroom as would be minimum for a family with 2 kids and a guest bedroom) condo housing in the downtown core.

Third, there are still plenty of houses in the junction or near eglinton and dufferin which are well priced. But the area is not trendy despite being somewhat close to downtown. Instead people would rather move to places with similar prices like brampton.

I take it you haven't been to the Junction in some time. Its extremely trendy and completely priced out of the market for most people now.

 

[sixrings]

Historically people didn't have lots of things they do now. Also, there is a huge lack of multi-bedroom (ie 3+ bedroom as would be typical for a family with 2 kids and a guest bedroom) condo housing in the downtown core.


I take it you haven't been to the Junction in some time. Its extremely trendy and completely priced out of the market for most people now.

1. stop buying useless crap that you dont need and then you wont need a huge house.2 did you miss my point about bunk beds 3. there are reasonable priced semis and small houses by the train tracks which people dont want..

 

[bobbob911]

This is common almost everywhere else in the world, and is one of the reasons why other cities have so much more transit than us. Digging under low density neighbourhoods in Scarborough and Vaughan is one of the reasons why we don't have enough money to build a decent transit network.

I have a feeling above ground is on the table for the 1-stop SSE, but the issue here is a viable corridor. The pain and schedule delay of expropriation is not one to be taken lightly.

 

[bobbob911]

1. stop buying useless crap that you dont need and then you wont need a huge house.2 did you miss my point about bunk beds 3. there are reasonable priced semis and small houses by the train tracks which people dont want..

Like a TV, or a computer, or a full sized fridge? Is it "useless" to have a study room for kids to do their homework free from distraction? Is it the height of luxury to have a 2nd bathroom on the main floor of your house?

If you look at the desired housing stock in the midburbs/suburbs, they *start* at 3 bedrooms and two bathrooms. The sweet spot is 4 bedrooms (and 2 or 3 bath). These are not mansions - you can have this for well under 1500 sqft. Affordable downtown bungalows or condos are invariably 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom.

I can look at realtor.ca and find a house in the Beaches or Leaside for under $1MM - that doesn't mean the average price isn't well well north of that. Your examples do not suggest the typical reality of the neighbourhoods you used as examples. I'm not sure why you fault people for not wanting to live immediately beside the train tracks!!

 

[LNahid2000]

I have a feeling above ground is on the table for the 1-stop SSE, but the issue here is a viable corridor. The pain and schedule delay of expropriation is not one to be taken lightly.

If we could reduce the cost significantly by not tunnelling, I'd fully support a 1 stop subway extension to Scarborough Centre. The reason I'm against it right now is because of the opportunity cost of $2.5 billion.

 

[bobbob911]

The funny thing is that its not like the B/D line is underground all the way to Kennedy. It comes above ground East of Vic Park. The precedent is literally the "subway" being connected to! but again, if there is no viable overground corridor, then the point is moot.

 

[sixrings]

Like a TV, or a computer, or a full sized fridge? Is it "useless" to have a study room for kids to do their homework free from distraction? Is it the height of luxury to have a 2nd bathroom on the main floor of your house?

If you look at the desired housing stock in the midburbs/suburbs, they *start* at 3 bedrooms and two bathrooms. The sweet spot is 4 bedrooms (and 2 or 3 bath). These are not mansions - you can have this for well under 1500 sqft. Affordable downtown bungalows or condos are invariably 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom.
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We are having less kids but we need more space? Im sorry how much room does that LED TV take up versus the old CRTs? Computers no longer need to be desktops and you know what a 2nd bathroom is not a necessity. I live in a one bathroom house btw. You are suggesting that people want a 4 bedroom with 2 baths. Im suggesting ok you can have that but then dont complain you are so far from the core that you lose out on transit. You are willing to concede that people downtown live with less but for some reason you sympathize with the person who purposely buys more but the one thing they have less is transit.

 

[vic]

The funny thing is that its not like the B/D line is underground all the way to Kennedy. It comes above ground East of Vic Park. The precedent is literally the "subway" being connected to! but again, if there is no viable overground corridor, then the point is moot.

(Totally not viable but.....)
There's what looks like a former hydro or rail corridor that keeps going north-east from Kennedy station (I'm really no so familiar with this area, or its history). Looks like it's all filled in with backyards, parks, a museum, etc.... A few expropriations and badaboom badabing....surface subway for Scarborough.

 

[crs1026]

We are having less kids but we need more space? Im sorry how much room does that LED TV take up versus the old CRTs? Computers no longer need to be desktops and you know what a 2nd bathroom is not a necessity. I live in a one bathroom house btw. You are suggesting that people want a 4 bedroom with 2 baths. Im suggesting ok you can have that but then dont complain you are so far from the core that you lose out on transit. You are willing to concede that people downtown live with less but for some reason you sympathize with the person who purposely buys more but the one thing they have less is transit.

Easy, your passion is causing you to make a valid point badly.

The Attack of the Monster Home is real, yes. But it begins around Spadina in the west and Broadview in the east, not out in the hinterland. The market's appetite for $1M+ reno's with huge living spaces is truly astounding. And a bit worrysome - Is there a market bubble? The experts say not, but it's hard to fathom the trend.

Density is finding the suburbs in spite of this. In Long Branch for instance, there is a huge problem with lot severances as developers attempt to cram two reno's into the space previously occupied by one small cottage-bungalow style homes. The irony being that the new houses roughly follow the design and lines of the inner-city houses that were so popular in the 1900-1920 period. Parts of Long Branch are starting to look like Euclid or Pearson or Sourauren! All the monster home districts have townhome developments crammed in too.

You are expressing your disdain for monster homes....you're welcome to your opinion. I share it, but this doesn't justify penalising these folks by giving them bad suburban transit. The road network was designed in an era where current density wasn't foreseen, and it really isn't open to change. The only solution is good transit.

If you don't want to live in a 4,000 foot home - no one is forcing you. But it's too big a trend to judge as 'wrong'. It is what it is. We have to be pragmatic.

- Paul

 

[sixrings]

im not against transit in the suburbs... I lived at midland and finch for years in a house I think was more than people needed... I would have loved more transit in my area growing up... I also lived at lawrence and brimley. And I hated the RT... I get it but what is frustating is that these outer burbs are not easy to serve and when a reasonable plan like a LRT is proposed it is not good enough for many people there. The roads do encourage driving but what is good is that there is plenty of room for ROW lanes. I dont know I am ranting. I am pro the one stop extension but I would like to see a LRT on sheppard still and am very happy to see the Eglinton east LRT happen. All Im saying is there are compromises where people live and I am not stopping people from buying 4000 sq ft homes but just dont expect a subway to your front door.

 

[bobbob911]

We are having less kids but we need more space? Im sorry how much room does that LED TV take up versus the old CRTs? Computers no longer need to be desktops and you know what a 2nd bathroom is not a necessity. I live in a one bathroom house btw.

And how many teenagers do you have?

 

[robmausser]

Building a subway underground at 4 times the cost simply because it is protected from the elements is like buying a Hummer to go over a bumpy road on the way to the grocery store. Complete overkill.

Heated shelters and platforms work wonders at a fraction of the cost.

 

[LNahid2000]

(Totally not viable but.....)
There's what looks like a former hydro or rail corridor that keeps going north-east from Kennedy station (I'm really no so familiar with this area, or its history). Looks like it's all filled in with backyards, parks, a museum, etc.... A few expropriations and badaboom badabing....surface subway for Scarborough.

The only problem is you're going to have a bunch of people saying "Not in my backyard!" People in Scarborough want a subway, but they don't want it to inconvenience them in any way.

 

[sixrings]

And how many teenagers do you have?

Its not my job to have a mcmansion so my teenagers can live in the basement until theyre in their 30s. My house size motivates moving out and moving on.

 

[bobbob911]

Its not my job to have a mcmansion so my teenagers can live in the basement until theyre in their 30s. My house size motivates moving out and moving on.

Sorry, are you suggesting you will kick your kids out when they are 13? I said teenagers, not full grown adults.

If you think that people should have to make a choice between adequate transit, and houses large enough to have such extravagant luxuries as a second bathroom, or a washer/dryer - then you are completely out of touch.