Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[coffey1]

And the ever-popular "So it's okay for a resident of Scarbororugh to freeze his/her ass of in the winter in the winter with an LRT , whilst a downtown resident enjoys the comfort of a subway stop?"

Has anyone found the most effective rebuttal to this argument? Much opposition to LRT is emotion-based and the "freezing" argument is right up that alley.

How about we stop bashing Scarborough commuters & discussing the most polarizing opinions. FFS this gets us nowhere. Scarborough is quite large and has various needs with differing opinions depending where you go. Bottom line the majority of residents in Scarborough pissed with the crap we currently have and what was previously offered.

Please cut this nonsense out.

 

[ILuvTO]

And the ever-popular "So it's okay for a resident of Scarbororugh to freeze his/her ass of in the winter in the winter with an LRT , whilst a downtown resident enjoys the comfort of a subway stop?"

Has anyone found the most effective rebuttal to this argument? Much opposition to LRT is emotion-based and the "freezing" argument is right up that alley.

What these folks don't realize is that there are also numerous folks that live DT that are also forced wait outside and take old, outdated, and packed street cars (hello King, Queen, etc, etc). And those streets could make a very strong case for improved transit, just like folks in Scarborough. We are ALL losers in this current transit climate, be it DT or suburban resident. We all need to band TOGETHER to demand more and better of our politicians.

 

[gweed123]

How about we stop bashing Scarborough commuters & discussing the most polarizing opinions. FFS this gets us nowhere. Scarborough is quite large and has various needs with differing opinions depending where you go. Bottom line the majority of residents in Scarborough pissed with the crap we currently have and what was previously offered.

Please cut this nonsense out.

You're absolutely right. It's much more productive to bash downtowners and lefties.

In all seriousness though, those reasons ILuvTO gave aren't just the opinions of a few fringe elements. I've heard those same arguments repeated many times by quite a few different groups of people.

 

[ILuvTO]

At first , that was the plan. But the plan has since been amended to keep 3 lanes of traffic along the Golden Mile intact. So no, traffic lanes will not be reduced.

Thank you for the updated information. I too was not aware of this. Do you know how they are going to accomplish this? I drive on that stretch of Eglinton every now and then and I don't recall seeing extra land available for them to widen the street to accommodate.

 

[Spicy Garage]

How about we stop bashing Scarborough commuters

@coffey1 wasn't bashing Scarborough commuters, just ignorant people who happen to live in Scarborough. Interestingly enough, by equating them with unqualified "Scarborough commuters", it's you who is pointing a finger at every single Scarborough commuter. Ironic.

 

[Spicy Garage]

What these folks don't realize is that there are also numerous folks that live DT that are also forced wait outside and take old, outdated, and packed street cars (hello King, Queen, etc, etc). And those streets could make a very strong case for improved transit, just like folks in Scarborough. We are ALL losers in this current transit climate, be it DT or suburban resident. We all need to band TOGETHER to demand more and better of our politicians.

While I agree that many downtowners also freeze their behinds off waiting for surface transit, it remains that very few Scarborough commuters have the luxury of waiting on a subway platform (however windy) as opposed to downtowners, so I'm afraid that rebuttal isn't effective enough. I'm looking for something to drive a stake through the extremely-potent "poor freezing us" argument.

 

[ILuvTO]

While I agree that many downtowners also freeze their behinds off waiting for surface transit, it remains that very few Scarborough commuters have the luxury of waiting on a subway platform (however windy) as opposed to downtowners, so I'm afraid that rebuttal isn't effective enough. I'm looking for something to drive a stake through the extremely-potent "poor freezing us" argument.

If you want to look at it that way, then there really isn't a rebuttal. Scarborough residents have a legitimate beef. I don't blame them for being upset. With that said, as badly as we want subways city wide, nobody wants to pay for them. One of my Scarborough friends once told me he isn't interested in the big picture or city building. All he wants is a subway in Scarborough and for his property taxes to be kept low. Ugh.

Edit: I'll just add that this same person also told me that if McGuinty didn't cancel the gas plants, the money used could have funded a subway. I don't disagree, but the idea that politicians are perfect and that there will be zero waste from their decisions is not realistic. He also thinks he pays enough in Federal and Provincial taxes that there should be money to 'get a subway done'. More 'bang my head against the wall' inducing stuff. Bottom line is that if we want more and better transit we have to be willing to pay for it. The current funding just isn't there.

 

[sixrings]

Thats the thing. People prioritize twice, three times as many and even four times as much square feet then a downtown person. So the downtown person is sacrificing space but is getting better access to things which are walkable and transit. You just cant have it both ways. This downtown living thing has only taken off in the last 15 years. Before that everyone flocked to the suburbs. But thats what happens. People move to the suburbs to have bigger house, and more cars, and more space to put more clothes. I guess if you are so used to having more you wonder why you dont have more transit. Oh wait I know why. You dont want more taxes.

 

[ehlow]

It won't aside from freak instances.

The Crosstown will always have signal priority. It should never have to stop at intersections.

I hope that's true....but it's what they said about Spadina.

- Paul

Anyone who has driven on Spadina & Eglinton knows there's a huge difference between middle-of-road transit in those two environments. Much wider stop spacing, traffic lights & intersections are further apart, wider road with higher speed limits etc.

Re: freezing, most downtowners freeze walking or waiting for streetcars. Most subway riders freeze waiting for a bus to take them to the subway station.

If they build a subway in Scarborough most people will take a bus to the subway station, so you have to wait outside no matter what.

The frustrating thing is they could've built surface heated shelters like the Viva BRT, but the current LRT surface stops don't look like they provide much wind protection at all.

 

[nfitz]

Please cut this nonsense out.

I see nothing in that post like you describe. Meanwhile you resort to name-calling against those who you don't agree with politically.

 

[ILuvTO]

The frustrating thing is they could've built surface heated shelters like the Viva BRT, but the current LRT surface stops don't look like they provide much wind protection at all.

Shame they couldn't have put in heated shelters. It would do a lot to change the perception of the LRT.

 

[coffey1]

Your comment really hits home. For years, I've been one of those downtowners, sermoning any and all about the suitability of light-rail for Scarborough, pulling hard numbers out of my Evernote stash, and being quite testy at monosyllabic Nayshunals and their blind repetition of every LRT/subway lie thrown their way. (See? I'm getting testy even now.)

I've tried to get into the mindset of Scarborough and Etobicoke voters since Ford was elected. I would love for you to expand on what, in your opinion, drives these residents. What reasons do they have for opposing appropriate transit that would make much more of a difference to many more of them?

Ford is a bi-product of frustration of voters in Toronto's large suburban areas which have only a tiny Political voice & their needs get drown out by a larger political giant which claims to use all the right "facts & data" to support there narrative.

My question to you is what do you call appropriate transit? Connecting an LRT on Sheppard to a subway stub? This is insanity & only really helps those commuters East of McCowan to Morningside. The ones on the West are better off staying on the bus to the subway. But we're told thru the left media that is is expert planning? Absolute nonsense. Reconnecting the RT with LRT is OK but aside from the addition of Centennial College & Markham/Milner stops the design & current route of this line is not heavily applauded out here to begin with. Then you add theses transfers as if they are "no big deal" to low income/disabled people that already have bus rides & it is a big deal. Are we really not allowed to improve the "expert" mistakes of the past either?

Tory seems to have steered the ship to some sort of workable comprise. For STC to be a satellite urban center. It SHOULD be on the City's main transit artery. The Eglinton/SMLRT cuts right through the middle of Scarborough and improves the local commute better than any other line. Thanks to FORD we have the funding too do all this & Sheppard with FUNDING still available we believe can hopefully be reviewed by new "experts" & be implemented using facts that's considers fair integration, convenience, and attractiveness.

Ford's crazy hardball Politics basically saved Scarborough from a legacy of poorly FUNDED and designed transit. Im not just Left bashing. I take issues with both parties on many topics & lean more left myself in the bigger picture. But this is the issue Toronto. Period. If if you live in these areas you would understand that our needs are not being represented in out best interest.

If Peel region took over Etobicoke, & Durham region took over Scarborough I would believe these areas would have much stronger representation for growth, attractiveness & integration in all areas. But since it's not that way we need to Mayor like Tory to hopefully change the mindset & bring everyone together.

 

[sixrings]

Im actually more OK with the STC one stop extension then the hybrid Gardiner design. The Gardiner I think should be ripped down and the money put towards transit. The one stop extension in my mind seems a bit silly but i used that RT for a number of years and that random transfer at Kennedy is more annoying then one can describe.

 

[Spicy Garage]

Shame they couldn't have put in heated shelters. It would do a lot to change the perception of the LRT.

I agree; several times, when posting about the billions saved by skipping the overbuilt, unwarranted subway, they could easily add heated floors and infrared overhead panels to every LRT stop, and still have billions left over.

Imagine what it would do to the "poor us" Scarborough commuters if their new LRT line had something no other line in Toronto had. The politics would be masterful. Hint hint, John Tory.

 

[bobbob911]

Thank you for the updated information. I too was not aware of this. Do you know how they are going to accomplish this? I drive on that stretch of Eglinton every now and then and I don't recall seeing extra land available for them to widen the street to accommodate.

I'm skeptical as well. My original understanding was that, since there is a diamond lane on either side, those 2 lanes would be replaced with LRT, and so no practical reduction of lanes. If the plan is to have 3 full lanes each way and LRT, that's new to me.