Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[sixrings]

As I understand it, It was out of service for maintenance until about 3-ish weeks prior to the accident. It was then in service almost every day afterwards.

Considering the mileage it would have done in the interim, it seems unlikely that the cause of the accident is related to the maintenance period, but I would also wait to apportion blame until the results of the inquiry come in.



At this point, it's likely no longer feasible to life-extend the equipment - and especially in light of the fact that they are now down at least one and maybe two pairs of equipment.

Which means that the other option is shutting it down and building a busway, or buying new, larger cars and rebuilding the system to handle them. Either way, it's a two to three year shutdown.

Dan

we were told for years these things were on their last legs. Anyone surprised had their heads in the sand. Not everything is fake news.

 

[Richard White]

As I understand it, It was out of service for maintenance until about 3-ish weeks prior to the accident. It was then in service almost every day afterwards.

Considering the mileage it would have done in the interim, it seems unlikely that the cause of the accident is related to the maintenance period, but I would also wait to apportion blame until the results of the inquiry come in.



At this point, it's likely no longer feasible to life-extend the equipment - and especially in light of the fact that they are now down at least one and maybe two pairs of equipment.

Which means that the other option is shutting it down and building a busway, or buying new, larger cars and rebuilding the system to handle them. Either way, it's a two to three year shutdown.

Dan

Personally, I feel like the Goose is cooked.

By the time the investigation is completed, the cause of the incident determined and repair done it will be well past November. At this point, there is no reasonable prospect of the RT reopening.

Be thankful this was not like Russell Hill and requiring a coroners inquest.

 

[sixrings]

Personally, I feel like the Goose is cooked.

By the time the investigation is completed, the cause of the incident determined and repair done it will be well past November. At this point, there is no reasonable prospect of the RT reopening.

Be thankful this was not like Russell Hill and requiring a coroners inquest.

maybe they can build a new open air blue jays stadium at Scarborough Town Centre when the new subway is complete. That way all of Toronto can see how much sense this project makes.

 

[smallspy]

Personally, I feel like the Goose is cooked.

By the time the investigation is completed, the cause of the incident determined and repair done it will be well past November. At this point, there is no reasonable prospect of the RT reopening.

Be thankful this was not like Russell Hill and requiring a coroners inquest.

I don't know why you feel that. There was an even bigger derailment at Kennedy 10+ years ago (thankfully, with fewer injuries), and the system was back up and running 3 or 4 days later.

As I understand it, most of the work to repair the fixed plant is just about done.

Unless they find some sort of shocking deficiency with the equipment itself - and that's certainly possible with almost 40-year-old equipment that was only supposed to last 25 - there seems to be no reason why the service can't restart in a few days. Unless, there is some sort of political decision not to.

Dan

 

[T3G]

I don't know why you feel that. There was an even bigger derailment at Kennedy 10+ years ago (thankfully, with fewer injuries), and the system was back up and running 3 or 4 days later.

As I understand it, most of the work to repair the fixed plant is just about done.

Unless they find some sort of shocking deficiency with the equipment itself - and that's certainly possible with almost 40-year-old equipment that was only supposed to last 25 - there seems to be no reason why the service can't restart in a few days. Unless, there is some sort of political decision not to.

Dan

I presume it would be safe to presume, if the service restarts, it will be sans 3000-3001?

 

[smallspy]

I presume it would be safe to presume, if the service restarts, it will be sans 3000-3001?

I think that's a safe assumption. At the least, 3001 will never see service again. And with 3016-3017 already out of action, it will be even more difficult to maintain service levels. (Although conversely, they will have more spares to choose from.)

Dan

 

[Richard White]

I think that's a safe assumption. At the least, 3001 will never see service again. And with 3016-3017 already out of action, it will be even more difficult to maintain service levels. (Although conversely, they will have more spares to choose from.)

Dan

What is the current spare ratio and do they have enough cars to maintain current service levels?

 

[littlewill1166]

What is the current spare ratio and do they have enough cars to maintain current service levels?

Toronto Transit Commission 3000-3027 - CPTDB Wiki

cptdb.ca

Maybe 3000 could be attached to 3017.

 

[T3G]

3017 is the one that's retired, 3016 was paired with the widowed 3025 and became 3024/II.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From an e-mail I got...

Line 3 Scarborough to remain closed for at least three weeks as derailment investigation continues

July 27, 2023​

​

The TTC is today confirming the comprehensive investigation into the July 24 derailment on Line 3 Scarborough will take at least another three weeks to complete. Frequent bus shuttle service will continue to run.​

​

A decision about the reinstatement of train service will only be made once the review is complete.​

​

“I want to thank Scarborough residents for their patience as the TTC continues to investigate this very serious incident,” said Mayor Olivia Chow. “The safety of the public transit system is everyone’s top concern and the SRT service can only return when we know it is safe to do so.”​

​

“The TTC Board stands behind every effort to ensure the root cause of this derailment is fully and thoroughly looked into,” said TTC Chair Jon Burnside. “CEO Rick Leary and his team are keeping us fully informed every step of the way and I am confident they will not rush into a decision without all the facts.”​

​

“We have enlisted the support and help of some of the transportation industry’s leading experts in rail, infrastructure and vehicles to assist and ensure we are leaving no stone unturned,” said TTC CEO Rick Leary. “Safety is paramount to all we do and only once we know exactly what happened can we make a decision about the future operations of this line. In the meantime, we are making contingency plans to ensure we are providing the people of Scarborough with frequent and reliable transit options.”​

​

On July 24 at 6:45 p.m. a southbound SRT train leaving Ellesmere Station had its trailing car derail approximately 500 feet from the station.​

​

In addition to the investigation, the TTC is using this time to inspect the entire SRT fleet and the infrastructure’s structural integrity. The results of the investigation will inform next steps.​

​

-30-​

​

Media contact: Corporate Communications, 416-981-1900, media@ttc.ca​

 

[Richard White]

From an e-mail I got...

Line 3 Scarborough to remain closed for at least three weeks as derailment investigation continues

July 27, 2023​

​

The TTC is today confirming the comprehensive investigation into the July 24 derailment on Line 3 Scarborough will take at least another three weeks to complete. Frequent bus shuttle service will continue to run.​

​

A decision about the reinstatement of train service will only be made once the review is complete.​

​

“I want to thank Scarborough residents for their patience as the TTC continues to investigate this very serious incident,” said Mayor Olivia Chow. “The safety of the public transit system is everyone’s top concern and the SRT service can only return when we know it is safe to do so.”​

​

“The TTC Board stands behind every effort to ensure the root cause of this derailment is fully and thoroughly looked into,” said TTC Chair Jon Burnside. “CEO Rick Leary and his team are keeping us fully informed every step of the way and I am confident they will not rush into a decision without all the facts.”​

​

“We have enlisted the support and help of some of the transportation industry’s leading experts in rail, infrastructure and vehicles to assist and ensure we are leaving no stone unturned,” said TTC CEO Rick Leary. “Safety is paramount to all we do and only once we know exactly what happened can we make a decision about the future operations of this line. In the meantime, we are making contingency plans to ensure we are providing the people of Scarborough with frequent and reliable transit options.”​

​

On July 24 at 6:45 p.m. a southbound SRT train leaving Ellesmere Station had its trailing car derail approximately 500 feet from the station.​

​

In addition to the investigation, the TTC is using this time to inspect the entire SRT fleet and the infrastructure’s structural integrity. The results of the investigation will inform next steps.​

​

-30-​

​

Media contact: Corporate Communications, 416-981-1900, media@ttc.ca​

That puts it at at least August 17th.

If goes into September they won't restart service. My take on this email is that they are looking for reasons to keep it shut down and will run out the clock with this investigation.

 

[Richard White]

Apparently there was another derailment at Greenwood Yard involving a track maintenance car.

It was a blink and you miss it moment on CP24 this morning but here it is.

 

[Metroscapes]

Yes, I can see the cost of investigating and fixing this... for 4 months of additional service - be a reason why the SRT will never reopen.

Chow needs to push the TTC to spend the money ASAP on bus lanes, signal priority and decent wayfinding for the bus bridge, and work on the SRT corridor as soon as possible...

(basically what Steve said

https://twitter.com/x/status/1683816721218519040

)

If I was Chow, I'd be a little hands off from this situation... and use the poor management/decision making as a reason to boot Leary.

As I understand it, It was out of service for maintenance until about 3-ish weeks prior to the accident. It was then in service almost every day afterwards.

Considering the mileage it would have done in the interim, it seems unlikely that the cause of the accident is related to the maintenance period, but I would also wait to apportion blame until the results of the inquiry come in.



At this point, it's likely no longer feasible to life-extend the equipment - and especially in light of the fact that they are now down at least one and maybe two pairs of equipment.

Which means that the other option is shutting it down and building a busway, or buying new, larger cars and rebuilding the system to handle them. Either way, it's a two to three year shutdown.

Dan

Personally, I feel like the Goose is cooked.

By the time the investigation is completed, the cause of the incident determined and repair done it will be well past November. At this point, there is no reasonable prospect of the RT reopening.

Be thankful this was not like Russell Hill and requiring a coroners inquest.

I second these. Who put so much more time and effort into the system that's faltering on its last legs for a couple more months if you can just push forward and implement transit priority lanes?

 

[T3G]

Pushing for transit priority lanes is one thing. Whether you are actually successful is an entirely different thing. Talk is cheap.

 

[nfitz]

I'm puzzled why it takes over two years to do an emergency build of a busway along the corridor. I bet you, that if push came to shove, they could start now, and have it running early next year. Screw the years of design and permitting - just use drainage ditches, and make sure there's flow. Use a typical cross-section. The junction at Ellesmere may be the biggest challenge, but no reason they can't just use the existing roads. Promise to rip it up, or build it properly, when the subway opens. With all the crazy seat-of-the-pants stuff the Ford government does, I'd think there'd be a way to expedite this.