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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

carlosdanger said:
No reason to feel bad or apologize for ignorance, unlike bad faith.

A lot of what you have written seems to align quite closely to narratives/arguments of those opposed to the current plans.

The Extension will have three stops. Lots of people still believe it is only one, but this was decided in 2017 or so. It is possible for the extension to take 20 years, but even when the project gets its eventual delay, I think it will be closer to ten than twenty years.

I agree with you more with the Crosstown. I think it will be slow and unreliable compared with grade-separated rail.

As an aside, I've always bristled at the framing of projects that some people don't like as political pandering, and projects people like as much-needed and reasonable. The former usually comes with calls to hugely reduce spending and move money to a different part of the city, not to improve the implementation of the plan in question.
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I’m familiar with the plans and don’t oppose them per se, I just find it strange overall that this much money has been poured into Scarborough with little material benefit to the users by 2030. What I meant was It will be at least 20 years before a newly completed/extended rapid transit line pushes further into Scarborough (lines 4/5) and so we are basically back at square one with no net new coverage.

Politics are unfortunately the determining factor for alot of this, not sound planning. The SSE is undoubtedly necessary, as losing the SRT without a replacement would be a huge mistake. But, we should prioritize the planned BRTs/other projects in recognition of the SSE being a zero-sum addition, and actually achieve the goal of expanding transit in Scarborough. This would be to also compensate for the long time before any other rapid transit line would open.
 
sixrings said:
Finite transit dollars means anytime anything is built it is taking away from somewhere else.

The Scarborough extension took away eglinton east at the very least.
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Why do you assume this extension is the reason for Mississauga not having a subway. It has been pointed out by others in the forum that Mississauga declined the opportunity to have a subway a few decades ago.
 
Deadpool X said:
Why do you assume this extension is the reason for Mississauga not having a subway. It has been pointed out by others in the forum that Mississauga declined the opportunity to have a subway a few decades ago.
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I am not assuming that this subway is the reason for mississauga not having a subway. My original post was meant to imply that this likely will see a further extension to woodside square (within Toronto at finch) and then as a result a further stop at Markham. Meanwhile the west would be lucky to make it to cloverdale or Sherway. You are correct that Mississauga has a part of blame in that. But I am not going to hold the city to something the former mayor decided. That said anytime we build an expensive subway project it surely means something else isn’t built somewhere else.

Btw I actually think making it to woodside square makes far more sense than a loop. Markham mall is a bridge too far for me though.
 
With all of the redevelopment at woodside square I think an extension there makes sense, but Markville seems a little far. It has the same problem as the Mississauga City centre. With the redevelopment planned at Markville it will have the density required for a subway, but the 7 km in between finch and the mall/GO station is like 95 percent single-family homes. Same with MCC, in between Cooksville and Sherway there is just not enough people to justify a subway. At least in Mississauga there is the room to intensify.
 
KhalilHeron said:
With all of the redevelopment at woodside square I think an extension there makes sense, but Markville seems a little far. It has the same problem as the Mississauga City centre. With the redevelopment planned at Markville it will have the density required for a subway, but the 7 km in between finch and the mall/GO station is like 95 percent single-family homes. Same with MCC, in between Cooksville and Sherway there is just not enough people to justify a subway. At least in Mississauga there is the room to intensify.
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Markham and Mississauga should be building their own subways. Stopping at the Toronto Wall, where they can go through customs to transfer to the TTC services (Checkpoint Hazel and Checkpoint Frank, if the Canadian Armed Forces could spare some tanks for enforcement).

BTW. Berlin is a so-called Stadtstaat (city-state), just like Hamburg and Bremen. It is on its own, not dependant on the some other state.
 
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KhalilHeron said:
With all of the redevelopment at woodside square I think an extension there makes sense, but Markville seems a little far. It has the same problem as the Mississauga City centre. With the redevelopment planned at Markville it will have the density required for a subway, but the 7 km in between finch and the mall/GO station is like 95 percent single-family homes. Same with MCC, in between Cooksville and Sherway there is just not enough people to justify a subway. At least in Mississauga there is the room to intensify.
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There is also a GO train station right next to Markville with planned all-day service.
 
If any subway goes into Markham, that should be OL North rather than Line 2.

Most of the new density in Markham is located between Leslie and Kennedy. The OL extension could get right in the middle of that density if it follows Woodbine or Warden.

While Line 2 at McCowan is too far to the east.
 
APTA-2048 said:
Of course, the subway already has a mix of fonts anyway
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Which are in the process of being replaced with the traditional font during renovations:

WilsonFont1.jpg
 
APTA-2048 said:
Wilson was a really easy station to change. I don't see them changing that on any of the other Spadina line stations. Wilson was a really easy station to change. I don't see them changing that on any of the other Spadina line stations.
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Cedarvale (Eglinton West) would use the subway font I'd assume. And new extension stations don't need changing.
 
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Transportfan said:
What's with the font, and lower case to boot?
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I don't want to start another debate over the Metrolinx wayfinding guide but...

Actually no, forget that.
This font is part of the new Metrolinx wayfinding standards, and to summarize its god awful. Unreadable fonts, nonsensical wayfinding rules such as not displaying the lines on the station banners, god.
 
I thought they were going to continue with Toronto Subway font as the track side font. Looking at the Sheppard Line, other than at track side, even the TTC wasn't using the Toronto Subway font.

I'm not sure how Highway Gothic or Clearview can be considered "unreadable fonts"... weren't they created for the purpose of readability from a distance or with poor vision? Again, if you want to catch a subway you go into the subway station, then you go to the line you want, and then you go to the right platform. I'm not sure who can be confused by this. If you are at Glencairn and you see the number 1 in a yellow circle on the sign, or you do not see a yellow circle with a 1 in it... how would that alter your course of action? If an entrance that only had access to one line was nearby to another that only has access to a different line, then line numbers might be helpful, but other than that it serves no purpose other than to add visual clutter to the sign. For most of the TTCs history there was no line number on the signs... there was the name of the station and that was it, and the TTC logo was somewhere else out front on a different sign than the one over the door, and visually it was far less cluttered. Now they added the TTC logo with the word subway under it, and modal icons like subway streetcar, and bus, and line number icons, and a wheelchair accessible symbol. Now having modal icons and accessibility icons might make sense given that Metrolinx and the TTC have not made all entrances equal for accessibility and recent stations haven't as good at putting bus terminals within the station, but there aren't many lines where line number is a consideration.
 
Rainforest said:
If any subway goes into Markham, that should be OL North rather than Line 2.

Most of the new density in Markham is located between Leslie and Kennedy. The OL extension could get right in the middle of that density if it follows Woodbine or Warden.

While Line 2 at McCowan is too far to the east.
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If Markham wants it, they'll both go into Markham. Make that when.
 
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