Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Undead]

I'm not against good infrastructure spending and if the Cons can deliver then we all win in the end. My reservations are simply with the fact that this is a post-Harris Conservative Party and there disdain for public spending is well known, just look at what they were up to before the pandemic. I am simply worried that the Cons have simply announced support for all of these projects with no intention of pursuing half of them. Sure the SSE will get built because Doug has a vested interest in it but all the other projects are quite easy to defer for "financial reasons". Once again I point to the Hamilton LRT and how they have seemingly crippled that project for reasons known only to them. Then of course there is GO RER which is by far the most expensive project in the Province and would thus be the easiest to kill for "financial reasons". The longer it takes to finally start actual work on it the more I fear something is going to go wrong. They already killed the "Missing Link" project which pretty much shuts the door on Kitchener getting good GO service for at least a decade.

They've been funding GO RER Expansion pretty steadily.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Note the complete lack of ... well, anything about the SRT shutdown . Yet again, Metrolinx PR doing an excellent job to provide only good news.
An example of something non committal that still mentions it - "We're working closely with the TTC to ensure that the replacement bus service will be as painless as possible" or something...

Really, they should be ponying up for the temporary bus terminal at Kennedy, but that's another story...

Metrolinx "News" is basically propaganda, unfortunately.

I hope at some point they become the arms-length agency they were intended to be.

Metrolinx's PR has seemingly taken inspiration from North Korea's news readers

 

[ARG1]

Metrolinx "News" is basically propaganda, unfortunately.

I hope at some point they become the arms-length agency they were intended to be.

I mean what do you expect them to do. Write an article titled "Why you're going to sit on a bus for 7 years"? Its a blog post from a company, the primary purpose is PR and marketing, idk why you're reviewing these like its supposed to be any different.

Also I love how you criticize Metrolinx for posting "propoganda" while your entire post history for at least the past several months is nothing but posting star articles which I can equally call "Doug Ford Bad" propaganda.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I mean what do you expect them to do. Write an article titled "Why you're going to sit on a bus for 7 years"? Its a blog post from a company, the primary purpose is PR and marketing, idk why you're reviewing these like its supposed to be any different.

Also I love how you criticize Metrolinx for posting "propoganda" while your entire post history for at least the past several months is nothing but posting star articles which I can equally call "Doug Ford Bad" propaganda.

Metrolinx definitely has a particularly acute fixation on its public image compared to other government agencies. I've never seen any other government agency with such a consistent and visible PR presence.

They come across as a bit ingenue, when all their publicly released news is good news, and bad news only ever seems to come from leaks through the press. Compare this to, say, the TTC, which doesn't have that much of a visible PR presence (I wouldn't say the TTC is honest, but they certainly don't go to the lengths to have such a squeaky clean image).

I suspect it's an intentional strategy, to avoid Metrolinx from being unfairly maligned in the press when things inevitably go wrong with their projects.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I mean what do you expect them to do. Write an article titled "Why you're going to sit on a bus for 7 years"? Its a blog post from a company, the primary purpose is PR and marketing, idk why you're reviewing these like its supposed to be any different.

Also I love how you criticize Metrolinx for posting "propoganda" while your entire post history for at least the past several months is nothing but posting star articles which I can equally call "Doug Ford Bad" propaganda.

What do I expect them to do? Well they say they are trying to keep the community "informed and engaged", and I expect them to do exactly that. Only ever releasing good news is not keeping the community "informed and engaged". It's misleading (if not outright untruthful). There's nothing preventing them from presenting a straight-to-the-facts update on the project progress, with all the implications detailed.

Metrolinx's PR behaviour just makes everything they say suspect, because you know you won't ever hear anything even slightly negative form them.

 

[ARG1]

Metrolinx definitely has a particularly acute fixation on its public image compared to other government agencies. I've never seen any other government agency with such a consistent and visible PR presence.

They come across as a bit ingenue, when all their publicly released news is good news, and bad news only ever seems to come from leaks through the press. Compare this to, say, the TTC, which doesn't have that much of a visible PR presence (I wouldn't say the TTC is honest, but they certainly don't go to the lengths to have such a squeaky clean image).

I suspect it's an intentional strategy, to avoid Metrolinx from being unfairly maligned in the press when things inevitably go wrong with their projects.

I don't know about you but I can name many other agencies that do something similar, OCTranspo and even YRT as some examples. With TTC I actually consider them to be an outlier in terms of public communication, every other agency spends all of their efforts trying to sell you what they're working on while trying to bury criticism. I actually do like what Metrolinx does with their blog posts because they do offer some more insight into their thought process even if its not the most consistent in terms of messaging.

 

[ARG1]

It's a public government agency. The public has the right to transparency and not fluff pieces that outright dismiss scrutiny.

I've read many of the blog posts and many of them do address issues people have and quite thoroughly. I wouldn't call it "outright dismissing scrutiny"

 

[Adjei]

I don't know about you but I can name many other agencies that do something similar, OCTranspo and even YRT as some examples. With TTC I actually consider them to be an outlier in terms of public communication, every other agency spends all of their efforts trying to sell you what they're working on while trying to bury criticism. I actually do like what Metrolinx does with their blog posts because they do offer some more insight into their thought process even if its not the most consistent in terms of messaging.

Yeah I am not sure what they do when they read this blog from YRT: http://www.vivanext.com/blog/

I'm not sure what the big deal about this. Lots of transit agencies use that as a form of communications. If the TTC or whoever chooses not to use this, then that's their own prerogative. Don't let your dislike of Metrolinx get in the way of having some more meaningful constructive criticism. There are more important things to focus on.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't know about you but I can name many other agencies that do something similar, OCTranspo and even YRT as some examples. With TTC I actually consider them to be an outlier in terms of public communication, every other agency spends all of their efforts trying to sell you what they're working on while trying to bury criticism. I actually do like what Metrolinx does with their blog posts because they do offer some more insight into their thought process even if its not the most consistent in terms of messaging.

They don't provide insight into their thought process, they provide you with their post hoc justification for whatever it is their doing. In other words, PR spin. They'll never say that they're burying a line or building a station because the Minister told them to do it.

This just goes back to one of my biggest problems with Metrolinx: that they effectively exist to shield the Government of Ontario and its Ministers from shitty political decisions. We’ve seen examples of this time and time again from Metrolinx:

• In 2016 the Sheppard East LRT was deferred indefinitely. Metrolinx never told the public. We only found out through a leak via the Toronto Star.
• Metrolinx is burying the Eglinton West Line because the Government told them to do so. However from their press releases, you’d think that Metrolinx autonomously made that decision because they determined it to be the best option
• Former Liberal Minister Steven Del Duca improperly pressuring Metrolinx to approve two more GO Stations, despite Metrolinx internal reports strongly recommending against the construction of those stations. If not for The Star leaking the story, we’d have no insight into the improper political interference that lead to the approval of those stations.
• In 2018, Metrolinx made a quarter billion payment to the Crosslinx consortium, to ensure that the Crosstown LRT opens on time (the project is still late). Again, Metrolinx never informed the public. We only ever found out about this after an auditor general report.

This is just what we publicly know about. Who knows what else is yet to be uncovered.

Yeah I am not sure what they do when they read this blog from YRT: http://www.vivanext.com/blog/

I'm not sure what the big deal about this. Lots of transit agencies use that as a form of communications. If the TTC or whoever chooses not to use this, then that's their own prerogative. Don't let your dislike of Metrolinx get in the way of having some more meaningful constructive criticism. There are more important things to focus on.

It's not individual blog posts that are the problem, but rather MX's long history of deceiving the public. Despection is their MO.

 

[Adjei]

They don't provide insight into their thought process, they provide you with their post hoc justification for whatever it is their doing. In other words, PR spin. They'll never say that they're burying a line or building a station because the Minister told them to do it.

This just goes back to one of my biggest problems with Metrolinx: that they effectively exist to shield the Government of Ontario and its Ministers from shitty political decisions. We’ve seen examples of this time and time again from Metrolinx:

• In 2016 the Sheppard East LRT was deferred indefinitely. Metrolinx never told the public. We only found out through a leak via the Toronto Star.
• Metrolinx is burying the Eglinton West Line because the Government told them to do so. However from their press releases, you’d think that Metrolinx autonomously made that decision because they determined it to be the best option
• Former Liberal Minister Steven Del Duca improperly pressuring Metrolinx to approve two more GO Stations, despite Metrolinx internal reports strongly recommending against the construction of those stations. If not for The Star leaking the story, we’d have no insight into the improper political interference that lead to the approval of those stations.
• In 2018, Metrolinx made a quarter billion payment to the Crosslinx consortium, to ensure that the Crosstown LRT opens on time (the project is still late). Again, Metrolinx never informed the public. We only ever found out about this after an auditor general report.

It's not individual blog posts that are the problem, its MX's long history of deceiving the public that's the problem. This goes far beyond a few blog posts.

I'm not sure why you are signalling out Metrolinx as some deceptive agencies. If we wanted we could also make a list of staff and city agencies also doing something similar. This is something happening in all government agencies.

City of Toronto staff hiding true cost of Scarboroug subway from council: https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...as-far-higher-than-city-council-was-told.html

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm not sure why you are signalling out Metrolinx as some deceptive agencies. If we wanted we could also make a list of staff and city agencies also doing something similar. This is something happening in all government agencies.

City of Toronto staff hiding true cost of Scarboroug subway from council: https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...as-far-higher-than-city-council-was-told.html

City Staff being deceptive does not make Metrolinx being deceptive okay. Nor does it make MX any more trustworthy. The institutional rot needs to be weeded out, not excused. The people deserve to know how and why their money is being spent.

 

[Adjei]

City Staff being deceptive does not make Metrolinx being deceptive okay. Nor does it make MX any more trustworthy. The institutional rot needs to be weeded out, not excused. The people deserve to know how and why their money is being spent.

Where did I say anything about what Metrolinx is doing is ok? It's good to criticize but them criticize equally and stop being hypocritical. Where were your criticisms when city staff was deceiving council and the public with regards to the Scarborough subway? We didn't hear anything from you. There is institutional rot in all facets of government and not just at Metrolinx. I'm sure you will take your defence of the public purse to every aspects of government and not just the ones you don't like.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Where did I say anything about what Metrolinx is doing is ok? It's good to criticize but them criticize equally and stop being hypocritical. Where were your criticisms when city staff was deceiving council and the public with regards to the Scarborough subway? We didn't hear anything from you. There is institutional rot in all facets of government and not just at Metrolinx. I'm sure you will take your defence of the public purse to every aspects of government and not just the ones you don't like.

For years I've been bitching about the Scarborough Subway approvals process, the inevitability of the cost overruns and the deceptiveness of City Planning's Scarborough transit network "plan" (which was clearly only ever a ploy to get the one-stop extension approved, as the EELRT obviously wouldn't ever get built).

I'm definitely a lot more critical of MX operations, but the organization also far more opaque than, say, City Planning or the TTC. For example, with the SSE debacle we had a treasure trove of documents and reports to examine in detail, which made it quite clear that the Scarbrough Network Plan was bunk. With MX, we don't get any of that. Look at the Ontario Line for example, where we weren't provided much documentation beyond their business case (which is clearly just more PR spin). To this date MX has yet to provide an honest assessment of the OL vs the alternatives, nor have they addressed the potential drawback of the OL plan in any substantive manner.

MX shouldn’t ever be allowed to make $11 Billion spending decisions with essentially zero public input or discussion, and next to zero disclosure of information with regards to the selection process and comparison to alternative schemes. The money doesn’t belong to Metrolinx, it belongs to us

Now if MX were more transparent in their decisions, I would be a lot less critical of them.

 

[nfitz]

Metrolinx communication is awful - but I don't see much to criticize in that particular piece. They don't even mention the SRT - and they aren't responsible for it. They might be responsible for the 15-year delay in opening from the originally targeted 2015 date - but that's another topic.

 

[syn]

They don't provide insight into their thought process, they provide you with their post hoc justification for whatever it is their doing. In other words, PR spin. They'll never say that they're burying a line or building a station because the Minister told them to do it.

This just goes back to one of my biggest problems with Metrolinx: that they effectively exist to shield the Government of Ontario and its Ministers from shitty political decisions. We’ve seen examples of this time and time again from Metrolinx:

• In 2016 the Sheppard East LRT was deferred indefinitely. Metrolinx never told the public. We only found out through a leak via the Toronto Star.
• Metrolinx is burying the Eglinton West Line because the Government told them to do so. However from their press releases, you’d think that Metrolinx autonomously made that decision because they determined it to be the best option
• Former Liberal Minister Steven Del Duca improperly pressuring Metrolinx to approve two more GO Stations, despite Metrolinx internal reports strongly recommending against the construction of those stations. If not for The Star leaking the story, we’d have no insight into the improper political interference that lead to the approval of those stations.
• In 2018, Metrolinx made a quarter billion payment to the Crosslinx consortium, to ensure that the Crosstown LRT opens on time (the project is still late). Again, Metrolinx never informed the public. We only ever found out about this after an auditor general report.

This is just what we publicly know about. Who knows what else is yet to be uncovered.



It's not individual blog posts that are the problem, but rather MX's long history of deceiving the public. Despection is their MO.

That's the entire problem.

This is a government created agency that's supposed to serve the public. That means making wise use of available funds and actually informing the public of what's going on.

Instead it simply tries to justify doing whatever the government wants.

It's even worse than the local media sources some people despise.