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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

JSF-1 said:
"It will go up to mcCowan instead of ending at the Scarborough Town Centre"
I get what he is trying to say but Doug really is an idiot.
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Left-winger makes an innocent gaffe = "aw, shucks" "cute" "we know what he meant to say"
Right-winger makes an innocent gaffe = "unfit to lead" "buffoon" "an abomination" "second coming of Hitler and the antichrist!"
 
nfitz said:
The TTC is preparing the tenders and running the project. Any provincial information comes from TTC.

Also we know that Doug Ford lies.

It seems unlikely that it's doubled ... of course if you want to build it much longer with 3 times the stations, and delay construction into the 2030s with a PPP and built in 40-year maintenance/operating contracts ... yes it will double
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That's the point though. The information isn't coming from the province, it's coming from the TTC.

Keep in mind when we're referring to the cost doubling, we're referring to the current $4 billion estimate vs the $2 billion estimate a few years ago.
 
Leo_Chan said:
I’m sorry, did you actually post something that I sort of agree with? However, what you’re saying only makes sense if the City and Province has money, a subway from Kennedy to Sheppard (Line 2 East), a LRT from Kennedy[/Mount Dennis] to Malvern (EELRT), and a LRT from Lawrence GO/ST/RER to Malvern along Progress (SLRT modified) is just not within budget.
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Money isn't a problem if we accept that:
  1. Maybe we should be taxed a bit more, and stop acting like government expenses are a bad thing.
  2. Maybe we should invest more of our budget into transit
  3. Maybe we should find better ways to finance these projects and consider other costs associated with the project (most engineers do this, but politicians never seem to understand these metrics)
  4. Maybe we should stop letting Metrolinx hand out contracts to people who don't know what they're doing
  5. Maybe we should stop wasting money on "buck a beer" and other crazy stupid shit.
These won't solve all our problems, but it will certainly help.
 
City of Toronto's not paying for this project anymore. Why are people being so obstructionist when it's not even their own money or interests at stake? If I had to choose between wasting money on not building gas plants or investing money in building mass transit that will benefit all users of it, you had better believe I'm siding with the good guys on this one. Compared to a City with around a $20 billion annual spending limit, a Province with near limitless cash at its disposal can afford to incur and absorb some of the miscellaneous expenditures and sunk costs for major capital projects such as this.

How anyone can still be crying over $4 billion for SSE when the DRL fully costed will for certain enter the $10-20 billion range is just not thinking clearly. But sure, let's resurrect the SLRT project and extend it all the way out to the Zoo and see if it's not just as expensive as SSE, if not more.
 
Hopkins123 said:
City of Toronto's not paying for this project anymore. Why are people being so obstructionist when it's not even their own money or interests at stake? If I had to choose between wasting money on not building gas plants or investing money in building mass transit that will benefit all users of it, you had better believe I'm siding with the good guys on this one. Compared to a City with around a $20 billion annual spending limit, a Province with near limitless cash at its disposal can afford to incur and absorb some of the miscellaneous expenditures and sunk costs for major capital projects such as this.

How anyone can still be crying over $4 billion for SSE when the DRL fully costed will for certain enter the $10-20 billion range is just not thinking clearly. But sure, let's resurrect the SLRT project and extend it all the way out to the Zoo and see if it's not just as expensive as SSE, if not more.
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And what about Sheppard East? Scarborough and Sheppard will cost at least 9 billion together.
 
syn said:
Keep in mind when we're referring to the cost doubling, we're referring to the current $4 billion estimate vs the $2 billion estimate a few years ago.
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Are we? Why not tripled or quadrupled then, as it was $1.2 billion (including vehicles) in the TTC's original 2006 estimate for a 2-station extension to Scarborough Centre.

I'm not sure it's really clear what the province is referring to in the doubling. Seems to be disingenuous to be going back to 2010 $ pricing (or earlier) from the early Rob Ford era when the construction had been pushed nearly 15 years into the future, and the estimate for the past 3 years or so is in inflated dollars, rather than the 2010$ that the province themselves is still using when reporting on Finch West and Eglinton.
 
OneCity said:
Really. Ive been basically saying this all along.

Things get sidetracked in the forum when I mention i support a subway over the blanket (what saw as poorly designed) LRT. I have stated many times and LRT should still run as a City Centre line to Malvern in addition to the the Sheppard subway and SSE. I could even see the case for the Sheppard LRT if the 3 stop is built but not my preference, strongly believe its not wanted by the residents here and never coming back politically. More time and money would be lost with another debate fwiw. We need to start with the most crucial pieces first, the rest easier in the the future and not mandatory. The SSE and the EELRT will make both Sheppard subway and City Centre to Malvern LRT connections in the future. The Centre should have been connected with any plan of any technology.

The City has no chance of raising necessary capital to develop a reasonable plan. The Province and Feds have the channels but refused to come help or develope a sustainable plan. That mixed with some strange political love for LRT technology with little care for details by a certain group is what led us into the mess of Transit City. Now the upper levels are slowly creeping in quickly as its overdue. On the capital side atleast.

Along with Smarttrack a better foundation to build around about to be laid, finally
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So have to ask. Given Council was told yesterday that the 30% design number for the one stop option will be ready by next week and they can go to tender and then pick a winner, are you not concerned with Ford's latest move to go to three stops? Are you not worried this could slow down the tendering while they get the three stop option up to 30%? As a pro-SSEer, what level of concern is this for you?
 
nfitz said:
Are we? Why not tripled or quadrupled then, as it was $1.2 billion (including vehicles) in the TTC's original 2006 estimate for a 2-station extension to Scarborough Centre.

I'm not sure it's really clear what the province is referring to in the doubling. Seems to be disingenuous to be going back to 2010 $ pricing (or earlier) from the early Rob Ford era when the construction had been pushed nearly 15 years into the future, and the estimate for the past 3 years or so is in inflated dollars, rather than the 2010$ that the province themselves is still using when reporting on Finch West and Eglinton.
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Yes based on the one stop plan from a few years ago.

You make a good point, but I wanted to keep it consistent in terms of what we're comparing.

Interesting that $1.6 billion for a 2 stop subway was not deemed a worthwhile investment in 2006 - the LRT was budgeted at $1.5 billion, though it offered a lot more access.

Now 13 years later we're at $4 billion and counting for just one stop. :p
 
Hopkins123 said:
City of Toronto's not paying for this project anymore. Why are people being so obstructionist when it's not even their own money or interests at stake? If I had to choose between wasting money on not building gas plants or investing money in building mass transit that will benefit all users of it, you had better believe I'm siding with the good guys on this one. Compared to a City with around a $20 billion annual spending limit, a Province with near limitless cash at its disposal can afford to incur and absorb some of the miscellaneous expenditures and sunk costs for major capital projects such as this.

How anyone can still be crying over $4 billion for SSE when the DRL fully costed will for certain enter the $10-20 billion range is just not thinking clearly. But sure, let's resurrect the SLRT project and extend it all the way out to the Zoo and see if it's not just as expensive as SSE, if not more.
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It's not our money?

I didn't realize Toronto residents don't pay provincial taxes and don't use Toronto transit.

Has my accountant been ripping me off all these years?
 
As should be a surprise to no one. Did anyone honestly expect the Province to take over Subway construction and maintenence and pay for both the Provinces and Cities share? Let me jump back a couple of pages to dig up my comment about how there was no way in hell the Province was going to start paying for 2/3 of the cost of these projects.
 
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