Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

[turbanplanner]

My friend works for Toronto Bike Share and the issue he says is that they need to actively price the e-bikes in conjunction with Uber Eats pay. Because if they make the ebikes affordable enough, unfortunately they all instantly disappear from docks as uber eats delivery people use them.

Not really the intention of TBS. So they have to price them accordingly so people don't use them to profit a private business.

This is one really cool example of knock on effects!

 

[generalcanada]

Every time I see numbers like this they feel incredibly inflated unless your target is someone with a new Benz or buys a new civic when the warranty expires

As a car owner who has fully paid off the car. 4-5k total Is probably very underestimated, it makes alot of assumptions
Mine is about 3k
I have an amazing deal with my insurance for 1k for this year. in the past ive paid 3k per year when I was younger, nevermind having a collision on your record.
my gas use is minimal. I use it for pleasure. Its like maybe $250 a year or so. Some people who use it for work probably do $1000+ in gas
Ive got no car payment. Even a basic sedan can be $500 a month or $6k per year on a 5 year finance. Granted once you pay it off youre good, but you still have to add it in to the yearly cost

Add to that yearly maintenance like an oil change or sudden repairs like a flat tire, you could easily be looking at 10k per year without doing anything wrong

 

[turbanplanner]

As a car owner who has fully paid off the car. 4-5k total Is probably very underestimated, it makes alot of assumptions
Mine is about 3k
I have an amazing deal with my insurance for 1k for this year. in the past ive paid 3k per year when I was younger, nevermind having a collision on your record.
my gas use is minimal. I use it for pleasure. Its like maybe $250 a year or so. Some people who use it for work probably do $1000+ in gas
Ive got no car payment. Even a basic sedan can be $500 a month or $6k per year on a 5 year finance. Granted once you pay it off youre good, but you still have to add it in to the yearly cost

Add to that yearly maintenance like an oil change or sudden repairs like a flat tire, you could easily be looking at 10k per year without doing anything wrong

I pay $129 a year for unlimited tire repairs and seasonal change over, my oil change cost me $25 2x a year and tires were $300 for 5 years. My ac broke and it cost me $120 to do it on my own including paying a mechanic to recharge the system.

If I said every bike rider pays $5000 for an e-bike that’s unrealistic as well, it’s about as expensive as you’re willing to pay (either side of the board)

 

[generalcanada]

I pay $129 a year for unlimited tire repairs and seasonal change over, my oil change cost me $25 2x a year and tires were $300 for 5 years. My ac broke and it cost me $120 to do it on my own including paying a mechanic to recharge the system.

If I said every bike rider pays $5000 for an e-bike that’s unrealistic as well, it’s about as expensive as you’re willing to pay (either side of the board)

25$ oil change? FKN WHERE LOL i just did mine today for $120

to do it on my own

AHHH there it is. Not everyone is a car wrench.

Even if you do all repairs yourself, you still got a 10k yearly bill on everything else.

 

[turbanplanner]

25$ oil change? FKN WHERE LOL i just did mine today for $120


AHHH there it is. Not everyone is a car wrench.

Even if you do all repairs yourself, you still got a 10k yearly bill on everything else.

Oh no, I’m willing to follow YouTube instructions!

Where is the rest of the 10k? Gas and insurance are maybe 2k a year? Having a car means I don’t have to Uber, I got a better job, more time in my day.

That’s the thing about these “surveys” they’re basically useless as everyone’s situations are different and most benefits (and costs) aren’t accounted for

 

[afransen]

Every time I see numbers like this they feel incredibly inflated unless your target is someone with a new Benz or buys a new civic when the warranty expires

Break it down.

Average insurance cost is $1655

Average Car Insurance Cost In Ontario By Month, Age & Gender

What is the average car insurance cost in Ontario? Learn about average car insurance costs by age and region.

www.thinkinsure.ca

Average distance driven is 16k km per year.

Average KMs Driven Per Year | How Much Do Canadians Drive?

kms per year, average mileage, average kms per year, average kms driven per year,

www.thinkinsure.ca

Let's allow a very fuel efficient small car that averages 7L/100km, and a current average fuel price of $1.65/L. That works out to $1848 per year for the average distance driven.

We're already up to $3500 without considering maintenance, depreciation, or finance costs.

A 10 year old Honda Civic with 200k km on it goes for about $10k. Let's optimistically assume you can get another 10 years out of it. That is $1000/year in depreciation. Of course, trying to push a ten year old car to 20 years in service and 360k km is also going to come with not insignificant maintenance costs. I think $1k per year is optimistic unless you are a mechanic and do all the work yourself (and keep in mind, we're talking about the broad population of low income working people, not the unicorn gearhead that keeps cars on the road to 500k km).

That's $5.5k per year.

Please show your math in how owning a car is much cheaper than this. I suppose it's possible for some people who have very low insurance, and drive very little, to spend less.

As a car owner who has fully paid off the car. 4-5k total Is probably very underestimated, it makes alot of assumptions
Mine is about 3k
I have an amazing deal with my insurance for 1k for this year. in the past ive paid 3k per year when I was younger, nevermind having a collision on your record.
my gas use is minimal. I use it for pleasure. Its like maybe $250 a year or so. Some people who use it for work probably do $1000+ in gas
Ive got no car payment. Even a basic sedan can be $500 a month or $6k per year on a 5 year finance. Granted once you pay it off youre good, but you still have to add it in to the yearly cost

Add to that yearly maintenance like an oil change or sudden repairs like a flat tire, you could easily be looking at 10k per year without doing anything wrong

You can play mental games all you want about 'paid off cars'. You have your purchase price, your disposition price, and your ownership duration. First minus second divided by third is your annual ownership cost in depreciation. Not even counting the finance costs (if any) or opportunity cost of tying up cash in a depreciating asset vs investments.

Yes, cars can be relatively inexpensive if you don't use them. But the cost per km can get quite high. $250 in gas at 7L/100km and $1.65/L is about 2000 km per year.

We're talking about working low income people who 'need' cars to commute.

 

[generalcanada]

Oh no, I’m willing to follow YouTube instructions!

Where is the rest of the 10k? Gas and insurance are maybe 2k a year? Having a car means I don’t have to Uber, I got a better job, more time in my day.

That’s the thing about these “surveys” they’re basically useless as everyone’s situations are different and most benefits (and costs) aren’t accounted for

bud did you even read my post? go read it please

 

[turbanplanner]

Break it down.

Average insurance cost is $1655

Average Car Insurance Cost In Ontario By Month, Age & Gender

What is the average car insurance cost in Ontario? Learn about average car insurance costs by age and region.

www.thinkinsure.ca

Average distance driven is 16k km per year.

Average KMs Driven Per Year | How Much Do Canadians Drive?

kms per year, average mileage, average kms per year, average kms driven per year,

www.thinkinsure.ca

Let's allow a very fuel efficient small car that averages 7L/100km, and a current average fuel price of $1.65/L. That works out to $1848 per year for the average distance driven.

We're already up to $3500 without considering maintenance, depreciation, or finance costs.

A 10 year old Honda Civic with 200k km on it goes for about $10k. Let's optimistically assume you can get another 10 years out of it. That is $1000/year in depreciation. Of course, trying to push a ten year old car to 20 years in service and 360k km is also going to come with not insignificant maintenance costs. I think $1k per year is optimistic unless you are a mechanic and do all the work yourself (and keep in mind, we're talking about the broad population of low income working people, not the unicorn gearhead that keeps cars on the road to 500k km).

That's $5.5k per year.

Please show your math in how owning a car is much cheaper than this. I suppose it's possible for some people who have very low insurance, and drive very little, to spend less.


You can play mental games all you want about 'paid off cars'. You have your purchase price, your disposition price, and your ownership duration. First minus second divided by third is your annual ownership cost in depreciation. Not even counting the finance costs (if any) or opportunity cost of tying up cash in a depreciating asset vs investments.

Yes, cars can be relatively inexpensive if you don't use them. But the cost per km can get quite high. $250 in gas at 7L/100km and $1.65/L is about 2000 km per year.

We're talking about working low income people who 'need' cars to commute.

We’re starting to go down a rabbit hole here, I’ll post my study results in a few days/weeks. I’m really curious has more demand materialized and what’s the traffic volume for cars.

I don’t think I can track the l length of trips though unless anyone has suggestions

 

[TRONto]

Errr.. Just paid $3k for repairs on my vehicle. Annual maintenance alone typically exceeds $2K. Guessing that you'd potentially be driving with undiagnosed issues. Add on top insurance, parking, gas, depreciation and I can see how some people can get to 10K.

I was curious so I just my average monthly car expense (no depreciation included and paid off car) from April of this year going backwards and I got a total of $525 a month ( this does not include the recent 3K) which isn't too bad.

 

[turbanplanner]

Errr.. Just paid $3k for repairs on my vehicle. Annual maintenance alone typically exceeds $2K. Guessing that you'd potentially be driving with undiagnosed issues. Add on top insurance, parking, gas, depreciation and I can see how some people can get to 10K.

I was curious so I just my average monthly car expense (no depreciation included and paid off car) from April of this year going backwards and I got a total of $525 a month ( this does not include the recent 3K) which isn't too bad.

After 8 years I had to do struts and did control arms and tie rods, anything I can’t do (the aforementioned work) I buy parts on rock auto and pay a mechanic about 80 an hour to put them in.

It’s like how phones are $1500 now but you can easily buy last years model for 500 if you wait!

 

[generalcanada]

After 8 years I had to do struts and did control arms and tie rods, anything I can’t do (the aforementioned work) I buy parts on rock auto and pay a mechanic about 80 an hour to put them in.

It’s like how phones are $1500 now but you can easily buy last years model for 500 if you wait!

how are you still missing the point man LOL
Just because you can do it cheaply doesnt mean anyone else can

You cant say "oh its easy for me so the statistic is wrong"

"The average person spends a thousand a year in maintenance"
That doesnt mean that there is no one who maintains the vehicle cheaply
It means that some spend $5000 and some spend $5

That is how averages work

 

[turbanplanner]

how are you still missing the point man LOL
Just because you can do it cheaply doesnt mean anyone else can

You cant say "oh its easy for me so the statistic is wrong"

"The average person spends a thousand a year in maintenance"
That doesnt mean that there is no one who maintains the vehicle cheaply
It means that some spend $5000 and some spend $5

That is how averages work

Yes but the averages are useless since everyone’s situation is so unique

 

[TwinHuey]

Courtesy of Cycle Toronto's June newsletter.

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[chrisw]

Some DoNotEnter and NoVehiclesAccess signs on Kitcheners downtown cycling grid.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1809917175873818810

 

[T3G]

Yes but the averages are useless since everyone’s situation is so unique

Averages are not supposed to take into account every single unique situation. They're supposed to give a general view and understanding of a problem. There's always going to be someone who doesn't fit into an average, but that doesn't mean averages aren't useful for setting policy.