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Toronto CityPlace: Montage + Neo (Concord Adex, 47 + 16s, KPMB)

Once again you lead me to believe you are speaking out of your a**. Absentee owners and flippers? Could you please show me some statistics proving this? Or perhaps any credible information you have that leads you to believe that?

The buildings on Front street have been around for 5+ years now and don't seem to be falling apart. In fact every time I go inside them I notice improvements and renovations.

From what I have seen the condo boards at all these buildings seem to be incredibly on top of things. Having buildings full of young professionals who take everything a little too seriously will have that effect. Many of the people in these buildings are first time homeowners who have spent all their lives saving up to purchase something downtown. True they don't necessarily plan to spend all their lives there, but they do want to see the value of their properties increase, and act accordingly to support the buildings and the neighbourhood.

Anyway I'll stop talking now. Who wants to hear actual observations when you can have random nonsensical speculations. Looking forward to more.
 
investor said:
It's a ghetto-to-be. It is loaded with absentee owners and flippers who could give a shi*t about the condition of the project and the area long term. It is an enormous eye sore that only brings down the appeal of Toronto. It should have been designated as the future home of Toronto's NFL team and we'd all be celebrating the innovative and exciting new design.
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Hi Investor,

I'm not going to debate the merits of Cityplace with you (planning/architecture/economic)... but you have a bad habit of stating your opinions as if they were facts regarding various condo projects as investments and project finances of the developers involved. Many of which are just bogus opinions... I think people are starting to catch onto the fact that few of your claims are based on what is actually happening.

There is no evidence in the 2007 Toronto condo market of any investors flipping on a mass scale (dumping) units. Typical activity recorded in newly built and occupied condos the last couple of years is approximately 4% of the units being brought to the market immediately. The highest re-sales in a new building in 2007 were recorded in the Hudson, with 15%-17% of the units being flipped.

Those numbers are hardly a cause for concern.
 
As actual proof that 'flippers' are having little effect on the market: prices continue to rise. If supply outstripped demand, prices would be falling. The fact that buildings are not being built until a high percentage of units are sold, is a nice buffer in the marketplace to keep supply from exceeding demand by too much.
 
Typical 'hasn't happened yet so won't ever happen' attitude from the ignorant masses. You guys never cease to broaden my smile at the coming disaster.

Why would Toronto be insulated from condo boom/bust cycles that gripped other fast growing regions? It won't.

To the Shit*yPlace dweller who wanted some evidence of the rampant speculation in the Toronto condo market, here ya go pal:

http://www.thestar.com/article/276706

"Re/Max says "investors have also jumped into the fray, now representing a sizable segment of the downtown market" with a significant 60 to 85 per cent of sales in new condominium developments involving investors this year, up from below 50 per cent last year."

Good luck unloading your speculative junk guys. It's a long way down.
 
Er, investor, explain, in *social*, not real estate terms, what's going to happen in "the coming disaster". Are these towers going to be abandoned cadavers or no-go drug dens? Really?

Honestly, investor, if anyone's talking from a closed-in ghetto, it's you. You're the Desi_Doubkle of the condo real estate world...
 
Rantings....

The one problem I have with reading Investor's posts is that his tune is almost always, way overly negative and smug. He seems to have set himself up as the only authority on everything concerning condos and such and everyone else's views are irrelevent.

It's like he's decided that he knows all, that everything is going to turn out bad regardless according to his view and then he tries to cram this view down all our collective throats. Oh, and that he won't actually consider another's position without trying to piss on their comments is another minus.
 
I would also like to know how Cityplace's downfall will occur in terms of the actual environment of the development - not just its record on paper. As adma posted earler, do you believe it will degrade into a drug/prostitution center? The future home of the Toronto Mob?
 
And yet, if we ignore the this guy's trolling, there is a well-informed, non-troll body of opinion that's pretty pessimistic about CityPlace's future. Shoot the messenger if you must, but keep a copy of that message.
 
It's true that many people have made a comparison between CityPlace and St. Jamestown, but I haven't seen any that have been compelling in explaining how the former will end up like the latter. Anything is possible, I suppose, but it strikes me as extremely unlikely.

As for Investor, whatever. He's brash and insulting enough that he's worth ignoring.
 
And as I've stated before: given location and demographics, if it'll wind up like SJT, it'll only be in the event that Toronto winds up like Detroit or Johannesburg.

At worst, they might be a little less friendly to the kinds of 1995/99 Mike Harris voters investor seems to view as a "plus"...
 
investor said:
Typical 'hasn't happened yet so won't ever happen' attitude from the ignorant masses. You guys never cease to broaden my smile at the coming disaster.
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lol @ "coming disaster". google the term fear mongering. I don't even know how to respond to this one.

"Re/Max says "investors have also jumped into the fray, now representing a sizable segment of the downtown market" with a significant 60 to 85 per cent of sales in new condominium developments involving investors this year, up from below 50 per cent last year."

Good luck unloading your speculative junk guys. It's a long way down.
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I don't quite understand if you are supposed to be a satirical parody or a real person. What exactly did you prove in your post?

That "sizeable segment of the downtown market with a significant portion of sales involving investors" could easily be places like the four seasons, ritz carlton, and trump tower. Who says it represents cityplace specifically? Or assuming it represents the condo market evenly, are you suggesting the entire city of toronto will turn into a giant ghetto?

Ah.. I think I finally understand. Everyone sell your real estate and buy gold!! Head for the hills!! quick! panic!!! omgomgomgomg

If I was to take a wild and completely meaningless guess (to take a page out of your own book) I would guess you're a failed investor who missed out on the oppurtunity to buy real estate for cheaper prices a few years back and now post your nonsensical fear mongering over innocent message boards in the hopes you can bring prices down back to levels you can afford.
 
gei said:
If I was to take a wild and completely meaningless guess (to take a page out of your own book) I would guess you're a failed investor who missed out on the oppurtunity to buy real estate for cheaper prices a few years back and now post your nonsensical fear mongering over innocent message boards in the hopes you can bring prices down back to levels you can afford.
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You got me gei-whiz. And in response I would guess that you are an uber-successful pre-sale condo buying tycoon posting from his 100-footer docked in the cayman islands.

Enjoy your depreciating assets people. I'll stick to owning quality property in quality locations at reasonable prices. There was a time for such buying for the patience buyer and there will be again. The aggregate buying behavior that we've seen in this current boom (2001-present) is a destructive force to the stability of the real estate industry in the GTA and beyond. Speculation is abhorrent, though understandable, and the equilibrium will swing back to normal and it has everywhere else.

Sh__yPlace with its enormous non-end-user component is especially susceptible to a strong correction due to the inferiority and government housing aspects of the project.
 
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