City Workers Strike 2009

[SimonP]

Okay. I demand the government pay me what the garbage workers earn, plus their generous benefits, pension, etc., all with their job security. It is unfair that I am compensated worse than these workers, even after I invested $40,000 in a degree.

People with degrees have it pretty good these days. I'm not certain it is the same in Canada, but in the United States the wage differential between employees with a university degree and those without is higher than any time in recent history. Today a person with a degree makes about 78% more. In the 1970s, when the wage gap was at its smallest, the difference was only about 20%. This is closely linked with the general growth of income inequality over the last 30 years.

 

[afransen]

People with degrees have it pretty good these days. I'm not certain it is the same in Canada, but in the United States the wage differential between employees with a university degree and those without is higher than any time in recent history. Today a person with a degree makes about 78% more. In the 1970s, when the wage gap was at its smallest, the difference was only about 20%. This is closely linked with the general growth of income inequality over the last 30 years.

That's nice. I still don't get paid the equivalent of $80k a year in salary and fringe benefits.

 

[salvius]

That's nice. I still don't get paid the equivalent of $80k a year in salary and fringe benefits.

Wait, so garbage workers get paid $80,000 now...?

Also, since this anger, in part, stems from the fact that those uneducated garbage strikers are making a pretty decent wage, I wonder what the people's position here is on the 79 seeing as how that one includes lawyers, planners, analysts, etc.?

 

[mangasparky]

Okay. I demand the government pay me what the garbage workers earn, plus their generous benefits, pension, etc., all with their job security. It is unfair that I am compensated worse than these workers, even after I invested $40,000 in a degree.

AAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! That is so sad. Here is another wolli-pop.

 

[AGTO]

I don't like the general sentiment that garbage workers shouldn't get benefits, fair pay, benefits for cleaning up OUR garbage.

That's not the general sentiment though, you're not paying attention.

 

[unimaginative2]

AAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! That is so sad. Here is another wolli-pop.

And that is exactly the kind of attitude that leads to oh-so-much public support for the union.

 

[afransen]

Wait, so garbage workers get paid $80,000 now...?

Also, since this anger, in part, stems from the fact that those uneducated garbage strikers are making a pretty decent wage, I wonder what the people's position here is on the 79 seeing as how that one includes lawyers, planners, analysts, etc.?

Okay, let me break it down for you. They get paid $50,000 per year in salary. They then receive a ~10% or so bonus in the form of bankable sick days (this is equivalent to a bonus)--the percentage is a bit fuzzy because it is paid out at final salary. They also receive a generous pension, which probably costs upwards of 15%-20% or more in fringe. Then they have vision, drug, dental, insurance etc. another 5-10%. There's 30-40%, and I might even be underestimating the cost of the pension (defined benefit is very, very, very expensive). On top of that, they don't have to work very hard (evidence being that they are less than half as productive as their Etobicoke counterparts). These people aren't earning working class salaries.

For the professionals working for the city, they should be earning a market wage.

And manga, to answer your rather mature and intelligent response, my point is that Seymour seems to think I deserve to be paid 'fairly' (read: well above market rates) for what I do. Where is my job with the city, and everyone else's, that pays more than the work is worth?

 

[mangasparky]

You need to figure out what a garbage workers hourly rate is. You need to break down pension, and benefits into a dollar per hour amount.

5% to 10% for benefits is meaningless.
20% to 30% for pension is also meaningless.

When you do this you will get the workers total package and costs to the employer, among other insurance and union costs.

example.. 25.00 per hour + 4.75 per hour for pension + 2.85 per hour health + whatever other hourly costs there are + vacation pay..

It sucks that you paid $40000 for an education and make less than a city worker, but I really don't care. Many say the union members have an unreal sense of entitlement, and that is how your comments make you sound.

 

[afransen]

I don't think I deserve to be paid more than I'm worth--and I don't think these workers do either. Outsource the work, and it will pay what it's worth.

 

[cdr108]

It sucks that you paid $40000 for an education and make less than a city worker, but I really don't care. Many say the union members have an unreal sense of entitlement, and that is how your comments make you sound.

I don't think afransen's comments make him/her sound like he feels he is entitled to $80K+ salary.

He's just pointing out that based on the garbage collector's ridiculous compensation (especially considering their lack of productivity compared to the private contracted UNIONIZED collectors in Etobicoke, 2 city employees vs. 1 pvt for the same work) then he should be paid more.

If one reviews the pay levels of city employees, you will notice that they are grossly overpaid compared to the PVT sector.

The argument is that they want to attract and retain the best of the best from the PVT sector; however, the flaw in that argument IMO is that the City can't fire those that are incompetent or unproductive.

 

[w.ll.am]

You need to figure out what a garbage workers hourly rate is. You need to break down pension, and benefits into a dollar per hour amount.

5% to 10% for benefits is meaningless.
20% to 30% for pension is also meaningless.

When you do this you will get the workers total package and costs to the employer, among other insurance and union costs.

example.. 25.00 per hour + 4.75 per hour for pension + 2.85 per hour health + whatever other hourly costs there are + vacation pay..

It sucks that you paid $40000 for an education and make less than a city worker, but I really don't care. Many say the union members have an unreal sense of entitlement, and that is how your comments make you sound.

You're paying for that 10% benefits.
You're paying for the 30% pension.
You're paying for the 10% health plan.
You're paying for them to work at 50% efficiency.

Do you hire a contractor at 50% higher cost to do 50% less productive?

Every percentage matters when they are being paid by us and under performing.

Most smaller city's pay sanitation workers 12-16$ an hour. Is Toronto so different that we pay the workers 50% -100% more? And don't say it's hard to live off that wage. My mom makes 10$ an hour and supports 2 kids alone. That's hard.

 

[afransen]

Not to mention that the answer to people not making enough to live on is not to pay a tiny fraction of them inflated wages. We're wasting money on these people as some sort of social justice issue, and every dollar could be used to help people who are ACTUALLY POOR.

 

[mangasparky]

I guess people on this thread are happy with exagerations to make points.

30% pension @ $25/hour is $7.5/hour is an exageration.

10% benefits @ $25/hour is $2.5/hour is likely.

An additional 10% for health???? That is included in the 10% for benefits.

I believe they got 5.6 percent over 3 years. That is pretty low in my opinion.

But again, what actually is there hourly rate? What is the total ackage per hour, and how are pension and health benefits deducted from that. If that adds up to 80000, thats fine. I'm pretty sure their package hits right around 60000.

 

[afransen]

They got 6% over three years, which is higher than inflation for the period.

 

[mangasparky]

They got 6% over three years, which is higher than inflation for the period.

I wish I could predict the future. With their yearly 2% raise they will be lucky to see 50 cents per hour on their pay checks. The other slice will go to maintain the level of their insurances.