British influences on Toronto, the city and its culture, that still survive to the present day

[wild goose chase]

Obviously, Toronto is much more like most (North) American cities than British ones, but there were British influences that could still strongly be felt in the past, both long ago and up to even a generation or two ago -- whether it was Victorian architecture, the cultural demeanor of the city up until the 70s, the popularity of Fish and Chips shops, or the England-built G-series red rocket subway cars that existed up to 1990. The TTC's "Mind the Gap" warning was supposedly borrowed from London's too.

But all in all, it seems that aside from general Canadian things, British influences are not noticeable anymore in terms of influences that outsiders can easily see, unless they know about its history, how pre-1970s Toronto was said to be very "British". There's little to show for it now.

But what things in the city's character, face or culture still show it currently? Would there be anything you can think of that makes people recognize British influences, as opposed to American here? I just read how even Drake, who I suppose is one of the celebrities that's pretty prominent as a Torontonian to outsiders, was noted to even use some slang common to the UK, though that's probably due to the shared UK-Canadian West Indian community.

 

[vatche]

I feel like toronto is becoming more and more Asian if anything. Some british architecture here and there but that's about it.

 

[old boy]

How about Toronto being it's unique self more and more. Thinking about Toronto without the constant referencing of other places, being a world city, unabashed.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Being it is unique self? What?

Being born in Britain and traveling back and forth since the 1970s, I've never thought Toronto had much of a British vibe or influence. I often noted and remarked on the differences between the two countries. I suppose we have what we call Victorian houses, most of which were constructed in the Edwardian or later eras, and we have high tea at what we could refer to as British styled hotels. And then there's the place names with references to British or Royal persons, places or events.

Toronto was settled and populated in large part by refugees from the American Revolution. Before the Revolutionary War, Toronto (or York) was a sparsely populated outpost. It was never a city populated mostly by Brits and their first gen children, as you had in Halifax. Thus, it's not surprising that we have little British influence remaining.

 

[Skeezix]

Toronto is well rid of some of the British influences which dominated its early history. In particular, the manner in which the Orange Order dominated local business and municipal politics. When Nathan Phillips was first elected mayor, he was the first mayor of Toronto in the 20th century not to have been an Orangeman, a fact which infuriated the incumbent Leslie Howard Saunders. It's when Toronto began to embrace its multicultural character, and started moving beyond the straightjacket of its colonial past (the Methodist Rome), that it really started to come into itself.

Before the Revolutionary War, Toronto (or York) was a sparsely populated outpost.

It was the Loyalists, and in particular the first Lieutenant Governor of their new colony, who gave us the name York after the Revolutionary War down south. It took residents 40 years to get the name back to Toronto.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I feel like toronto is becoming more and more Asian if anything. Some british architecture here and there but that's about it.

One could say the same about London, UK. I remember visiting London in the early 1990s, where I was born in the 1970s, and wondering where all the English are. Returning in the 2000s and seeing mostly Asian culture, shop signs and people, you wouldn't know this was the English capital at all.

To be accurate though, the English do not have a capital or capitol. The Scotts have one, as do the Welsh and the Northern Irish. Given the lack of cultural cohesiveness or identity of the English people, it's remarkable that they've had much influence on the world at all, but not surprising how they've vanished from much of London.

 

[narduch]

In terms of music, I always thought Canadians liked British music way more than Americans did.

I don't know if my view is skewed by listening to a lot of 102.1 in the 90's. But bands like Oasis were way bigger in Canada than they were in the US.

If I took some time I could probably come up with a some more examples of British acts that were hits in Canada but not in the US.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I say Canadians and Americans equally like British music. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Iron Maiden, Genesis, The Police, The Who, Duran Duran, Queen, Elton John, David Bowie, and in recent years Spice Girls (ugh), Cold Play, Adele, etc, etc. I would suggest that none of these bands and artists are more popular in Canada than in the USA.

 

[narduch]

I say Canadians and Americans equally like British music. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Iron Maiden, Genesis, The Police, The Who, Duran Duran, Queen, Elton John, David Bowie, and in recent years Spice Girls (ugh), Cold Play, Adele, etc, etc. I would suggest that none of these bands and artists are more popular in Canada than in the USA.

Those are the really big acts. They are universal.

I think from the 90's on, acts like Oasis, The Verve, Blur, etc. actually had more traction in Canada than in the US.

Oasis's 2nd album was absolutely massive in Canada. But they never really made it in the US.

 

[ElDee]

Half jokingly, I sometimes get the sense that our government policies and general approach to regulation still retains some British puritanism in spirit. I say that because I find that we tend to "regulate fun things." Do these policies reflect general public sentiment? Technically it should since we have a representative system.

 

[King of Kensington]

Toronto was settled and populated in large part by refugees from the American Revolution. Before the Revolutionary War, Toronto (or York) was a sparsely populated outpost. It was never a city populated mostly by Brits and their first gen children, as you had in Halifax. Thus, it's not surprising that we have little British influence remaining.

Not quite. Immigrants from the British Isles in the 19th century greatly outnumbered the existing Loyalist/late Loyalist descended population in Upper Canada. There was also a very large wave again in the early 20th century. In the 19th century, Irish (both Catholic and Protestant) were the largest immigrant group, the English were the largest group in the 20th century.

That being said, their children would have integrated into the existing "Canadian" population.

Mass immigration to the Maritimes pretty much stopped around 1860 or so. So if you could travel back a century you'd hear far more British accents in Toronto than in Halifax.

 

[Admiral Beez]

When I arrived in Mississauga in 1976 as a 5 yr old kid, I remember half my street was recently arrived Brits, and there were dozens of Brits in my elementary school. We were all fleeing 1970s Britain. Now Mississauga hasn't many ex-pat Brit in it I'd say.

 

[wild goose chase]

Sometimes when I feel like going out to eat fish and chips, sitting down at a restaurant, often I can still hear British accents around me and do wonder if some of the folks there are long-time residents of Toronto (perhaps those who'd arrived many decades ago) or recent expats/tourists.

Though it isn't common at all now, I still have, while hanging around in more suburban places like Scarborough, heard the occasional British accent a few times from older people who seem to be residents there, and wondered if some of those folks were immigrants during the early days of those suburbs' rapid growth.

I wonder what was the proportion of citizens of Toronto who spoke with a British accent, at its peak -- it would be interesting to imagine if there was any point, perhaps in the 20th century, where you could hear British, as opposed to N. American accents from say, one in ten, or one in five or even more of the city's residents.

 

[wild goose chase]

When I arrived in Mississauga in 1976 as a 5 yr old kid, I remember half my street was recently arrived Brits, and there were dozens of Brits in my elementary school. We were all fleeing 1970s Britain. Now Mississauga hasn't many ex-pat Brit in it I'd say.

I wonder if the proportion of Brits that moved to Toronto, but then returned, were really high.

I've read that many historians estimate that even back in the earlier 20th century (when travel was more difficult) for European immigrants going to the United States, that up to one third of them might have ended up "coming back" to their home countries. I've also heard that Americans who are expats or originally intended to "immigrate" to Canada also have high rates of returning -- as in the case of pardoned Vietnam War draft dodgers that didn't stay in Canada once it was fine for them to go stateside again (though there aren't stats collected on how many did or didn't).

I know usually people distinguish between those who are labelled "expats" for intending to stay temporarily and return back (possibly later in life or once retiring) and those who are "immigrants" who intend to stay permanently, but it seems like the lines can be blurred between the two sometimes.

 

[wild goose chase]

The British influence on Torontonians' accent/dialect is really small and not noticeable in a broader North American context, but I still perceive some influence such as calling someone who's crazy, "mental" and using "wicked" to mean cool (though this is present in some places in the US too). I remember hearing these two words at least as a kid in the 90s not too uncommonly.