British influences on Toronto, the city and its culture, that still survive to the present day

[Admiral Beez]

Rob Ford used the more British term orientals for we call asians. In Britain asians are folks from the subcontinent.

 

[JasonParis]

In terms of music, I always thought Canadians liked British music way more than Americans did. I don't know if my view is skewed by listening to a lot of 102.1 in the 90's. But bands like Oasis were way bigger in Canada than they were in the US. If I took some time I could probably come up with a some more examples of British acts that were hits in Canada but not in the US.

This is very true. Toronto's guitar-based music scene, especially from the dawn of punk until recently was made-up of a lot of anglophiles. Many Toronto band's jangly guitars take their cues from across the pond as well. Brit Pop / Northern Soul / Motown club nights like Blow Up also never caught-on in the US like they did here.

 

[Armour]

Depends on the generation you're talking about. The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, Queen, etc. were just as -- if not more -- popular in the States than here.

 

[King of Kensington]

The college system at U of T? Though its importance has diminished since the 1970s.

 

[the lemur]

Obviously, Toronto is much more like most (North) American cities than British ones, but there were British influences that could still strongly be felt in the past, both long ago and up to even a generation or two ago -- whether it was Victorian architecture, the cultural demeanor of the city up until the 70s, the popularity of Fish and Chips shops, or the England-built G-series red rocket subway cars that existed up to 1990. The TTC's "Mind the Gap" warning was supposedly borrowed from London's too.

But all in all, it seems that aside from general Canadian things, British influences are not noticeable anymore in terms of influences that outsiders can easily see, unless they know about its history, how pre-1970s Toronto was said to be very "British". There's little to show for it now.

But what things in the city's character, face or culture still show it currently? Would there be anything you can think of that makes people recognize British influences, as opposed to American here? I just read how even Drake, who I suppose is one of the celebrities that's pretty prominent as a Torontonian to outsiders, was noted to even use some slang common to the UK, though that's probably due to the shared UK-Canadian West Indian community.

Other bits and pieces in terms of architecture: brutalism seems to have found a foothold here more than in the US, red-brick housing projects like Alexandra Park and along Gerrard remind me of similar developments from the '60s and '70s in the UK, and a handful of buildings done in the 1950s 'Festival of Britain' style, when designing things to look like stylized crowns was the flavour of the moment (for example, Lord Lansdowne school at Spadina & College).

 

[the lemur]

Those are the really big acts. They are universal.

I think from the 90's on, acts like Oasis, The Verve, Blur, etc. actually had more traction in Canada than in the US.

Oasis's 2nd album was absolutely massive in Canada. But they never really made it in the US.

This is true. Some bands are sometimes just too English to really make it big in the US unless they score a fluke hit that doesn't sound quite so English (looking at you, Blur) but they fall on more sympathetic ears in Canada for various reasons, including a smaller population & fewer cities to tour, somewhat more adventurous radio programmers, etc. Also, cracking the US requires a lot of hard work, touring, playing the media game and being in it for the long haul (not just 2 or 3 albums). Some UK bands decide it's not worth the effort, or they turn their noses up at the idea of Americans liking their music, or they just don't have staying power.

 

[the lemur]

Rob Ford used the more British term orientals for we call asians. In Britain asians are folks from the subcontinent.

That's because Rob Ford picked up such things from his dad, who was a dinosaur.

 

[the lemur]

Being it is unique self? What?

Being born in Britain and traveling back and forth since the 1970s, I've never thought Toronto had much of a British vibe or influence. I often noted and remarked on the differences between the two countries. I suppose we have what we call Victorian houses, most of which were constructed in the Edwardian or later eras, and we have high tea at what we could refer to as British styled hotels. And then there's the place names with references to British or Royal persons, places or events.

Toronto was settled and populated in large part by refugees from the American Revolution. Before the Revolutionary War, Toronto (or York) was a sparsely populated outpost. It was never a city populated mostly by Brits and their first gen children, as had in Halifax. Thus, it's not surprising that we have little British influence remaining.

I moved back and forth between the UK and Canada a few times as a kid and I agree that Toronto is not very British, or not overtly. But the term is afternoon tea - high tea is more of a dinner-type meal.

 

[the lemur]

Sometimes when I feel like going out to eat fish and chips, sitting down at a restaurant, often I can still hear British accents around me and do wonder if some of the folks there are long-time residents of Toronto (perhaps those who'd arrived many decades ago) or recent expats/tourists.

Though it isn't common at all now, I still have, while hanging around in more suburban places like Scarborough, heard the occasional British accent a few times from older people who seem to be residents there, and wondered if some of those folks were immigrants during the early days of those suburbs' rapid growth.

I wonder what was the proportion of citizens of Toronto who spoke with a British accent, at its peak -- it would be interesting to imagine if there was any point, perhaps in the 20th century, where you could hear British, as opposed to N. American accents from say, one in ten, or one in five or even more of the city's residents.

I've been hearing a lot more UK accents lately (past 5 years or so) and it's mostly younger professionals, not so much older people. At the same time, there also seems to be a growing number of European newcomers.

 

[the lemur]

One could say the same about London, UK. I remember visiting London in the early 1990s, where I was born in the 1970s, and wondering where all the English are. Returning in the 2000s and seeing mostly Asian culture, shop signs and people, you wouldn't know this was the English capital at all.

To be accurate though, the English do not have a capital or capitol. The Scotts have one, as do the Welsh and the Northern Irish. Given the lack of cultural cohesiveness or identity of the English people, it's remarkable that they've had much influence on the world at all, but not surprising how they've vanished from much of London.

London is pretty darn unaffordable, is probably why. You either have to be an expat there with a decent salary (generous by our standards) or else someone from another EU country living frugally, commuting long distances, etc. Once you get to other cities in England, though, it's still mostly English people everywhere.

 

[wild goose chase]

I've been hearing a lot more UK accents lately (past 5 years or so) and it's mostly younger professionals, not so much older people. At the same time, there also seems to be a growing number of European newcomers.

Though we still have to wait on the 2016 census results of course, just by looking at the last couple censuses, the number of UK-born Canadians was just a little bit lower in 2011, at 559,455 than 2006, where there were 579 620. So it seems like the UK-born population is on the net is decreasing because of either older generations being more numerous than the younger or because of return migration?

Also, according to the 2006 data of the UK-born 25,655 of the people immigrated between 2001-2006, 18,200 between 1996-2000, and 20,630 between 1991-1995, with the rest of the half-million before 1991.

In general, it's been often said that the major immigration wave from the UK/Europe to North America has long been over and in general, developed countries' migration to other developed countries has now been very minor, but interestingly enough while the UK-born population in Canada has gone down, the US-born one has gone up in recent years -- 316,165 in 2011 compared to 250,535 in 2006. Also, unlike the British case, the American-born has increases in more recent immigration (in 2006, 38,770 of the US-born came between 2001-2006, 24,155 in the five years before that, and 18,770 in the five years before that, with 168,840 before 1991 all in all).

 

[Admiral Beez]

It is interesting to me that while some may say good riddance to any sense of Britishness in Toronto's culture, we also bemoan that we kept so little of the Britishness of Toronto's pre-1960 architecture.

 

[the lemur]

It is interesting to me that while some may say good riddance to any sense of Britishness in Toronto's culture, we also bemoan that we kept so little of the Britishness of Toronto's pre-1960 architecture.

I think that's sort of overlooking the amount of Victorian/Edwardian architecture that remains, at least in terms of housing stock.

 

[prosperegal]

Went to a girls-only private school and we had a house system, prefects and called the principal a "headmistress" (until the mid-90s, anyway, when the title became "Head of School"). However, that's fairly typical of CIS (Conference of Independent Schools) institutions across Ontario.

 

[King of Kensington]

The college system at U of T? Though its importance has diminished since the 1970s.

Another was grade 13/OAC which was like the British A levels.