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Brampton Transit/Zum

Northern Light said:
An extreme example for why I don't favour most 'concessions' in fare systems.

I do get the arguments around famlies with young kids and expensive travel; and I might humour that; but overall, the problem with concession fares is that they drive up administrative costs, they reduce effective fare compliance/enforcement and they drive up the fare for everyone not covered by a concession, creating more people who need the concession.

One fare for everyone 13+ allows for a much lower adult fare and fare-capping.

Why we are still allowing 'cash' fares in terms of paper money and coins is beyond me; but I would then add, I see no reason we should penalize anyone using open payment with a higher fare, as the take from Interac and VISA are both lower than Presto's.
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Not everyone has a credit/Debit card let alone an Presto along with no bank account for various reasons. Can't buy a transit fare in cash anywhere other than on the bus in the 905. You have riders living from day to day pay they earn that day and they have a hard time saving up for a pass/ticket.

Not everyone over 60 has a good income to the point their fix income keeps shrinking yearly with the cost of living going up, let alone transit fares.

You have visitors who have no need for a Presto card or a pass. There is no system Presto fare machines that offers a day pass or a week pass in the 905 other than for GO.

Look at Europe where you have the option of buying 1 or 2 way trip trip, X trips, 1-2-3-5-7 day pass, 1 week or a month, let alone a year. Some systems charge 6-18, 18-60, 60 up while other charge 1-18, 18-60, 60 up. Then there are a few who offer 60 up at a real low price. Some offer free transit if you are 60 up living in X city or country.

As much as I support the idea of a smart card, Presto been a failure from day one and costing some systems more in fees than it cost them to collect the fare in the first place. TTC was real behind in the fare collection and moving to the smart card. Look how long it took then to use credit/debit card, let alone your banking card.

The backend of the Presto has been a problem from day one and it has been stated by people who write blogs. I have know the issues from day one and one reasons ML charges high fees to make any changes to the system for any transit system.

What system today offer you the ability use your bank card on a transit vehicle and how has it been in place?? US being doing it for years as well other Canadian transit system as well.
 
Tristen said:
View attachment 463236
Brampton Transit Feb 2023 ridership is out.
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Real question, is this boarding or real people fare??

Boarding and real people fares are 2 different things as boarding is misleading on many levels. There are times I can board a vehicle 4 times in that 2 hour window while paying one fare. Other riders try doing 2-3 boarding in that 2 hour window as well. When it coming to model split, those numbers could be misleading as to what the real percent is in the first place.

If one used the population of Brampton (681,617) at 20% allowing for 90 trips a month on average, ridership should be about 3067277. Looks like Brampton has a 20% model split for this year so far assuming everyone use the system 7 days a week which is not true. Using 3082775/681617 we get 22.11% model split that is higher than Mississauga.
 
They’re linked trips, so not boardings. Some of those trips are not paid fares - seniors residing in Brampton can ride for free, and others are GO and Miway/YRT transfers, but they are unique trips to Brampton Transit.
 
Northern Light said:
Why we are still allowing 'cash' fares in terms of paper money and coins is beyond me; but I would then add, I see no reason we should penalize anyone using open payment with a higher fare, as the take from Interac and VISA are both lower than Presto's.
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We can't have card/open payment as the only option in the GTA as long as Canadian banks are still charging per transaction. A basic account with Scotiabank still only allows 12 free transactions per month...and it's probably not much better for the other banks.

The reason you see aggressively high debit card use in places like London (where I am now) or elsewhere is there are literally zero transaction limits and no fees on pretty much every bank card, even basic ones.
 
DKsan said:
We can't have card/open payment as the only option in the GTA as long as Canadian banks are still charging per transaction. A basic account with Scotiabank still only allows 12 free transactions per month...and it's probably not much better for the other banks.

The reason you see aggressively high debit card use in places like London (where I am now) or elsewhere is there are literally zero transaction limits and no fees on pretty much every bank card, even basic ones.
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I sometimes forget about these, as I don't pay them, I just have to maintain a minimum balance; I don't believe they offer accounts like mine anymore, but I'm grandfathered.

I concur that banking fees in this country are grossly excessive.
 
You have the option of either using your debit or credit card (which is much more convenient for visitors or infrequent users) or paying $6 for a Presto card. I guess one can also buy a limited number of paper tickets at one time from a machine at a subway station, and have that show up as a single transaction.

It’s not great.
 
The slides are now live (click on the link above). The main highlights include 504 Züm Chinguacousy, which would run from Chinguacousy and Sandalwood (not Mount Pleasant GO) to Bramalea GO along Steeles. Apparently, it’s to help with demand on Steeles as well.

B45E73C8-61F0-43E5-BF12-9816A4DAFA41.jpeg


There are also short-term and long term routing changes planned for the northeast and northwest, including expansion into Caledon, mainly to serve employment areas. It appears Route 18 will be extended north into Caledon later this year.

FC00560A-81B7-470D-B4ED-140FA567A591.jpeg

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And general service improvements proposed, mostly on core routes.

179F90BF-EBEF-4EEF-8E59-B61E05F7A17A.jpeg
 
Great to see. Would love to see Ching Zum by next year, it's unfortunate it looks like Bramalea won't be until late 2025 at the earliest. Same with the extension of Zum main to Mayfield. Either way, glad to see plans for service increases overall while systems like the TTC are cutting back.
 
DKsan said:
We can't have card/open payment as the only option in the GTA as long as Canadian banks are still charging per transaction. A basic account with Scotiabank still only allows 12 free transactions per month...and it's probably not much better for the other banks.

The reason you see aggressively high debit card use in places like London (where I am now) or elsewhere is there are literally zero transaction limits and no fees on pretty much every bank card, even basic ones.
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There are banks with no fee accounts, including Simplii. The fact that some people foolishly pay for banking services is a weak argument against open payment. Also, people can always use Presto without a bank account at all.
 
Its the fact that it applies to 2 of the bigger routes in the network, and both do pretty fine at 30 min frequency. Not sure what made them decide to throw a YRT at us here but hoping that it doesn't end up spreading further.

They also need to stop underestimating weekend service so much, a lot has changed compared to a decade ago where this would've been fine. The 501 for example has went from one of the most effective routes, to now the literal worst route in BT of 2022-2023 imo because of its abysmal weekend service and lack of all day York U trips which leads to massive overcrowding at all times of the day. That is horrible considering it is the flagship route of BT. Even if its on Sunday, in what world is 30 min only service on what's supposed to be a frequent express route even pass as ok at all?
 
I’m hoping that once the big batch of service increases comes in September, these will be fixed. There’s a lot of new service hours in the budget that have yet to be implemented.

Route 2’s problem is the LRT construction as the route extends south of Derry Road.

The 501 is way overdue for major improvements, but so far, BT has been trying to fix things a bit at a time - like the additional runs listed.

March ridership this year was 3,288,926, a 27.6% increase over March 2019. So they better do something soon.
 
anb said:
Its the fact that it applies to 2 of the bigger routes in the network, and both do pretty fine at 30 min frequency. Not sure what made them decide to throw a YRT at us here but hoping that it doesn't end up spreading further.

They also need to stop underestimating weekend service so much, a lot has changed compared to a decade ago where this would've been fine. The 501 for example has went from one of the most effective routes, to now the literal worst route in BT of 2022-2023 imo because of its abysmal weekend service and lack of all day York U trips which leads to massive overcrowding at all times of the day. That is horrible considering it is the flagship route of BT. Even if its on Sunday, in what world is 30 min only service on what's supposed to be a frequent express route even pass as ok at all?
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I class 501 as an 15-20 minute route on Sunday. Anything less than that is chasing people away from using transit and having riders on over crowded buses.

Nothing wrong having YRT or MT overlapping BRT routes as if offer better connection to each system that allows riders not having to have long wait transferring from one system to another well encouraging ppl to use transit more.

The problem for 2 south of Derry has been the month long closure of intersections for the guideway and track work. Single lane hasn't help any system route, but with most of the trackwork in place now, the single lane will be a thing of the past. The area north of Derry will be the next mess for route 2 as well MT this year, with the rebuilding of the 407 overpass and the haft closures of the various intersection for guideway/track work.

Be thankful how work is been done on Hurontario as its a nightmare on Finch for the LRT work there.

Saw a Züm 60' bus on a flat deck heading eastbound on the 401 in Toronto on Thursday to be overhaul.
 
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