Brampton Transit/Zum

[aleesia]

Zum Main debuted today!

What I found out today:

Reactions
- Many Mississauga passengers at Square One dropped their jaws when they saw the Zum bus pass by.
- Many passengers at Shoppers World had the same reaction.
- Pedestrians along Hurontario had an eye candy to the Zum bus.
- Some high school students smiled when they saw it, came near to it, and realized that it doesn't stop at their stop.
- Mississauga drivers waved to the Zum driver as they intersect.

Help/Wayfinding
- Zum representatives helped passengers to explain the new transfer rules. They were lenient to the Mississauga passholders, and the rep recommended to get Presto card by October.
- Peel Police was in Shoppers World and Square One to assist passengers.
- MiWay signs served by 502 (including Square One) also have the route affixed to it with a red background.

Loading
- It's jam-packed, but this is day one. Buses are on the brink of being full!
- Northbound: Between Square One and Shoppers World is the heaviest, then between Shoppers and Downtown, then around 10 passengers north of it.
- Southbound: Had 20 - 30 until it reaches Downtown. At Nelson, there seemed to be an unlimited rush of passengers until it got full. The situation stayed the same up to Shoppers World. At Shoppers World, the number of passengers getting on vs. getting off is about the same. So, my bus was (still) full at Square One.
- 2 Main had lighter loads, except one which was full of students.

Scheduling
- The bus that I was supposed to take didn't arrive. Waited 10 minutes for it. So I had to take the next bus.
- Then, 2 Zum buses arrived as a convoy.
- That next bus left 2 minutes late, then arrived at Sandalwood 13 minutes late. But that's because there have been many passengers asking the driver, and many passengers are used to touching the green light when opening the doors.

Other routes
- Many 17 and 19 passengers have switched to 18A to go to Bramalea.
- Passengers were confused when they were waiting for the 53, but a 54 came instead.
- Steeles buses arrive as a convoy of 2 even during midday.

 

[nfitz]

For those of us who seldom pay attention to the Zum thread. What are the rules regarding them taking passengers within Mississauga ... might actually need to use it this week.

 

[RedRocket191]

Brampton will accept other's transfers but will not reissue. Brampton will not accept passes accept YRT passes between Gore and 50. Brampton will issue transfers to people with Brampton monthly or weekly passes on request.

Mississauga has different rules for different systems, but with Brampton they will accept transfers but not reissue, they will not accept Brampton passes, and they will not issue transfers on a pass.

 

[nfitz]

Wow ... transfer rules too complicated! Simpler coming from TTC ... no one takes our transfers.

The transfer rules don't really matter anymore with Presto ... I assume it will all work out. I was thinking more about what buses can you ride. Mississauga buses won't let you ride between 2 TTC stops. I assume they also won't let you ride between two Brampton stops? Will Brampton buses let you ride between 2 Mississauga Transit stops?

 

[ShonTron]

I rode the 502 earlier this evening. Main Street/Hurontario certainly did not get as much treatment as Queen Street did: no signed queue-jump lanes, no fancy new terminal to serve. Some of the Zum shelters (such as at Bovaird and Williams Parkway) were not installed yet. Still, it's a good service. It will get popular quickly. It looks like prep work has started on the new Shoppers World terminal; that will be a big help and timesaver.

The southbound driver was easygoing with Mississauga passengers. Mississauga really plays Zum down. Sure, they will direct northbound riders to the Zum buses, but they only show it as a grey line on the MT maps. And since they will not accept each others' passes, and MT will not give passholders transfers to use Zum, it might as well be the route 26 in Etobicoke as far as Mississauga is concerned.



501 and 502 meet:

 

[TOareaFan]

Wow ... transfer rules too complicated! Simpler coming from TTC ... no one takes our transfers.

The transfer rules don't really matter anymore with Presto ... I assume it will all work out. I was thinking more about what buses can you ride. Mississauga buses won't let you ride between 2 TTC stops. I assume they also won't let you ride between two Brampton stops? Will Brampton buses let you ride between 2 Mississauga Transit stops?

I would suspect so.....I mean once you tap on....what is the driver gonna do, tackle you to keep you on his bus until you pass tha "Welcome to Brampton" sign?

 

[TOareaFan]

I rode the 502 earlier this evening.

Are my eyes lying? I thought the 502 was not going to the Heart Lake terminal but was, instead, going about the same distance past Sandalwood just to loop around and head south again? Always made more sense to me to take it to HL terminal.

 

[ShonTron]

On another picture, I noticed the destination sign said "check screen": but some buses on the route had 502 programmed into them.

Which does bring me to another point. With the removal of 19 from beyond 25 metres of the city line, I'd like to see a combined 2/502 route for late evenings after 10PM: run Route 2 south of Derry to Square One stopping only 502 stops. North of Derry, make all local 2 stops to Heart Lake terminal, to make up for Mississauga totally dropping the ball here.

 

[nfitz]

I would suspect so.....I mean once you tap on....what is the driver gonna do, tackle you to keep you on his bus until you pass tha "Welcome to Brampton" sign?

They could easily do what Mississauga Transit does at the stops after leaving Islington. Simply not stop to let anyone off, and if someone is getting on at a TTC stop, only open the front doors, and verbally berate anyone who tries to get off.

 

[Dan416]

Am I the only one who finds it weird seeing a Brampton bus near Mississauga City Hall?

 

[aleesia]

On another picture, I noticed the destination sign said "check screen": but some buses on the route had 502 programmed into them.

Which does bring me to another point. With the removal of 19 from beyond 25 metres of the city line, I'd like to see a combined 2/502 route for late evenings after 10PM: run Route 2 south of Derry to Square One stopping only 502 stops. North of Derry, make all local 2 stops to Heart Lake terminal, to make up for Mississauga totally dropping the ball here.

I think Brampton-bound passengers meet at the 407 to connect with 2, while Mississauga-bound passengers will get off at Derry to connect with 19. There are two different pick-up points because 2 is looped at the bottom, while 19 is totally bi-directional at the northern end. Also, the frequencies don't match, 2 has 30-minute service, while 19 has 20-minute service, which will definitely totally screw the connections.

The main reason why Mississauga looks like the one dropping the ball and why 19 was kicked out of Shoppers World is because Brampton would like to take over service within their city and they won't be providing spaces in the new terminal (which isn't there yet) for Mississauga buses. (I see this scenario at Bramalea City Centre once MiWay runs express buses along Dixie). So, I think Brampton should let MiWay's 19 serve Shoppers World whenever Zum stops running, since its space at the terminal would be vacated at the time.

Actually the 502 was so overcrowded between Shoppers World and Nelson that 103 should actually go to Downtown Brampton, matching one of the two alignments of the LRT! Or, Brampton should create a short turn route (502A) between Square One and Downtown Brampton.

 

[ShonTron]

I asked Mississauga Transit directly about that issue, and they claim that the late evening schedule is "coordinated" with the BT 2. They have no plans to operate to Shoppers ever again beyond the 103 service. After 10PM, the MT 19 service level drops below 20 min, but doesn't always match BT's clockface 30 minute schedule as MT uses a non-clockface schedule. Some connections are "coordinated" for same-time departures, but others are not.

There's lots of room for MT 19 evenings at Shoppers World (about 40%-50% the bus departures as in peak when it is overcrowded), so that in itself is not an excuse. It's also been said years ago that MT was looking to end the 19 at the 407, before Acceleride (now Zum) was fully planned.

I'm not sure this is really a matter of space, even though there isn't enough (Brampton brought route 2 back, but serves the terminal by means of on-street stops at Steeles and Lancashire by Super Store, this could have worked for MT). After all, the MT City Centre/Square One terminal doesn't have space, but BT got a slot there. That said, it was mentioned by MT recently as a reason for not going to Shoppers.

I'd hope that MT operates the 105 (whatever it will be called) into the Bramalea terminal, but that makes too much sense so I've got to question it.

 

[drum118]

I watch a 502 load at Sq One at 2 pm and 90% of the riders were students. It was a full seat load when it left.

I was going to talk to the big boy at council, but he got away before I could talk to him.

The 105 is down the road and too many things to happen system wide before putting it on the road.

MT has a budget issue and one place to cut service is the 110 south of UTM since I have never seen 15 riders in total for around trip to the Clarkson Station and then back to UTM. That's a 35 minute trip at a cost of $55 to operate that bus. Nice cost ratio.

I said before this route hit the road, ridership will be the pits and no need for it.

Between the the bus pass issues and no 103 on Sunday, its a 2 fare ride to SW now. If you want to use the 502 from Sq One with a pass, its a 2 fare ride now and going backward toward the 90's.

 

[aleesia]

Judging by the new transfer rules between Brampton and Mississauga:
- looks like sales of passes will slide down
- sales of (more expensive) tickets will rise
- this forces everyone to use Presto, but that will not be effective for MiWay customers
- last Tuesday, there was a long lineup at Square One with people buying Mississauga and Brampton tickets. This must be a direct result of the new transfer rule. Today, the lineup there is shorter, but is still unusually long.
- Brampton is punishing UTM students and those who are coming from Mississauga

For weekly passholders of either system, if going from one system to another:
- Adult passholders must switch to tickets or get a Presto card
- Student and senior passholders must switch to tickets (they cannot get Presto yet since MiWay does not have Presto available for concession fares)
- Currently, Mississauga passholders will have to endure paying Brampton tickets, while Brampton passholders can get a transfer as soon as they board their first bus, which will then be accepted by Mississauga.

For monthly passholders of of either system, if going from one system to another:
- Adult passholders must switch to tickets or get a Presto card come October 1.
- Student and senior passholders must switch to tickets come October 1.
- For the rest of September, Mississauga passholders will have to endure paying Brampton tickets or weekly passes, while Brampton passholders can get a transfer as soon as they board their first bus, which will then be accepted by Mississauga.

- For U-pass holders who come from Brampton, they have to buy Brampton weekly or monthly passes or tickets for the rest of the academic year.
- For U-pass holders who are going to Brampton, they have to pay Brampton tickets.

 

[ShonTron]

Only Mississauga passholders get the screwjob because Brampton passholders never were allowed to start their ride on MT without paying a MT fare (or vice versa). Yet they still can transfer to MT for free as before. But Mississauga passholders are not allowed by their own system to transfer to BT under the new policy, because Miway won't give them the transfer to do so anymore. Brampton may not recognize U-pass holders, but this is no different than before.

It's beyond time for a common Peel Region or Peel/Halton fare structure, much like the South York Region fare structure (Vaughan Transit, Richmond Hill Transit, Markham Transit, GO Yonge C and Bayview buses and contracted TTC and BT 77 services), which had common passes and transfers before YRT amalgamation.