taal
Senior Member
But how is the old Tiffany space not 'prime' retail ? I agree the point that their is a lack of adequate space in Yorkville has made time and time again, but I think some of us just aren't buying it ; )
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But how is the old Tiffany space not 'prime' retail ? I agree the point that their is a lack of adequate space in Yorkville has made time and time again, but I think some of us just aren't buying it ; )
ardwold1
Active Member
I do find it a bit strange that the old Tiffany's space couldn't have bene taken by one of the many luxury retailers supposedly scouting Bloor. It could be that to completely overhaul the building- as renderings show COS will be doing- was too much of a financial commitment for some retailers (who would perhaps prefer to move into something with relatively minimal alterations required). Now if the issue with Bloor retail right now is not a lack of adequate and appropriate space, I wonder, then, what those of you who "just aren't buying it" suggest the problem is?
Adjei
Senior Member
Maybe they're waiting for space in 1Bloor east?
…and in 1 Bloor West. Mizrahi is right: there are not enough large, high-ceilinged high-end spaces for the stores that want you to have an experience in them.
It will also be interesting to see who goes into the rebuild Yorkville Plaza, and eventually across from it on the north side of Yorkville in those redevelopments.
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It will also be interesting to see who goes into the rebuild Yorkville Plaza, and eventually across from it on the north side of Yorkville in those redevelopments.
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ACT7
Active Member
It's kind of irrelevant if you buy this or not. Speak to some brokers and brand representatives and they'll tell you directly if you don't believe me. Tiffany is in a great location but it's a HUGE space for a Dior, Zegna, Cucinelli, etc. So the likelihood of it ever going to them was minimal. Another case in point - the old Benetton space. Great location and the right sized space, but both Cucinelli and Zegna didn't like the minimal street frontage. Cumberland and Yorkville Ave both have several walk-up and walk-down spaces. Not a thing retailers like a whole lot. I can go on, but hopefully you get the point.
taal
Senior Member
No I do, and you have a lot more inside expertise but my argument being that Canadians in general just don't consume has much high end luxury retail items as our counterparts in the states do i.e. setting wealth aside this could explain some of the lack of demand.
Add this the Yorkdale effect which I think has really cannibalized Bloor - yes of course Yorkdale has more and better space (or at least this was the story at the beginning) but I now think Yorkdale is also more attractice to high end international retailers, maybe simply because they can make more ? (even when factoring in rents). Also now there is a critical mass of luxury retail at Yorkdale and this just makes it even more difficult for bloor to be competitive.
So maybe a bit of those two factored together are at play ?
My gut feeling is Bloor 1 east and west will end up having a lot more mid end retailers then we imagine today.
Add this the Yorkdale effect which I think has really cannibalized Bloor - yes of course Yorkdale has more and better space (or at least this was the story at the beginning) but I now think Yorkdale is also more attractice to high end international retailers, maybe simply because they can make more ? (even when factoring in rents). Also now there is a critical mass of luxury retail at Yorkdale and this just makes it even more difficult for bloor to be competitive.
So maybe a bit of those two factored together are at play ?
My gut feeling is Bloor 1 east and west will end up having a lot more mid end retailers then we imagine today.
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
But isn't that like any major city - the high end and the mid range together on the same street? In New York, Fifth Avenue and Madison have the highest end shops imaginable, but they also have Zara and Banana Republic and Joe Fresh and Ambercrombie. Ditto Michigan Avenue in Chicago, ditto Oxford Street in London, ditto Boulevard St. Germain in Paris.
I think that the idea of storefronts limited to Dior, Armani, Ralph Lauren and their ilk is a fantasy only seen in Vegas malls and Rodeo Drive, which are hardly examples of what we want the city to be.
I think that the idea of storefronts limited to Dior, Armani, Ralph Lauren and their ilk is a fantasy only seen in Vegas malls and Rodeo Drive, which are hardly examples of what we want the city to be.
JasonParis
Moderator
Well said. It's pretty much the world standard for "high streets" as far as I've seen.
vatche
Senior Member
I completely agree. I don't only want dior and ferragamo on bloor. I want them all. For a city the size of Toronto I feel like the shopping districts are getting fragmented. one here, one there. Versace in the burbs, chanel on bloor, Nordstrom on yonge. it is a lot more attractive and I mean in the sense of attracting people, if it is all congregated. People love Chicago and the number one reason for that is the fact that everything is on Michigan ave. they stay at the hotels, shop and eat downstairs and leave saying "oh, I love Chicago". It is an experience. Do we have that in Toronto ? no!! I am not going to take the subway or a taxi and go to yorkdale to shop. I am going to want to stay in the city. And for now, I feel like yorkville is losing out. Then again, like I said in a previous post with all that new construction, hope things change.
In Miami, Dior, Zadig and Voltaire, longchamps, Marni, were all small stores. the same size as the ones u would find at holt's. The same size as benetton.
taal
Senior Member
Oh I completely agree I want a mix too and throw some restaurants in their as well ! But that wasn't my point, my point was I don't think there's a huge demand for prime retail spots for very high end retailers on Bloor street anymore. Mind you there is a demand I just mean I don't think its as high as some folks make it out to be.
Time will tell, if all these new developments end up having very few high end retailers, while Yorkdale grows, I think it'll be a good indicator.
Time will tell, if all these new developments end up having very few high end retailers, while Yorkdale grows, I think it'll be a good indicator.
prosperegal
Senior Member
I'm wondering if it's possible that some of the more mid-priced stores are going to move into 1 Bloor East once it's complete, making room for more higher end stores to take over, say, Banana Republic or Gap.
vatche
Senior Member
I think nobody knows what's going to happen. The market will dictate the future of yorkville and bloor.
ACT7
Active Member
I frankly find the retail mix and experience in Toronto far more diverse and interesting than Chicago. The U.S. in general has more high end boutiques, and Chicago being the third largest city in the country is a beneficiary of that. However, I find that strips like Queen West simply do not exist in Chicago and there are several examples of some very interesting labels that are in Toronto that don't exist in Chicago. I don't think people love Chicago because of everything, as you put it, is on Michigan Avenue. I would hate for Toronto to be defined by one street anyway.
If people want to shop, they'll seek out the places to go. I don't buy that tourists are so confined to one area that they simply won't travel to a mall (that is arguably pretty easy to get to from downtown anyway) if they want to find some stores that aren't in the core. Ultimately, having multiple retail nodes, whether their high street, mall, or some specific district makes a city's retail landscape more diverse. Travel to Asia and the Middle East, and virtually ALL high-end and mainstream shopping is in a mall. Not saying that's what I would like, but any way you slice it, appropriate space is probably the single biggest factor.
greenleaf
Senior Member
Guess was all papered up yesterday morning with the signage taken down as well.
ardwold1
Active Member
Excellent!