Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

nfitz said:
Sure they do - Buffalo International - not to mention Niagara Falls International in the US - though I'm not sure if there is any passenger service into it.

Even people in Toronto will drive to Buffalo to get a cheaper fare ... that's where everyone in Niagara Falls and St. Catharines goes to.
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So you're suggesting that people in Niagara (or wanting to get to Niagara) will want to cross the border with passport in hand? Have you not been paying any attention to the WHTI initiative and its impact on the ontario tourism industry? Not only that but consider it takes at least 30 minutes to get to the airport, plus 30 minutes pre-flight at the airport, plus 30 mins in the air, plus 30 mins to get off the island, you're looking at a massive 2 hour inconvenience for what is only a 1 hour 15-30min bus ride from St Catharines or Niagara Falls. There's no way Porter could compete with Greyhound and Coach Canada in this corridor.

CDL.TO said:
Niagara Region (ONT) has two airports. They just don't currently have any scheduled services. (And Niagara Falls (NY) airport doesn't even have any year-round scheduled flights.)

If there's a market for 20-30 minute flights (with quick check-in operations), I don't think they should write them off.
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Welland Airport doesn't have a big enough runway, nor any sort of infrastructure. Niagara District doesn't have the infrastructure.

But the fact still exists that you're looking at a longer process to fly than to take the bus. There is absolutely no business case, and there's no way they could recoup the costs of such a short flight while maintaining competitive fares. Hell, the taxes alone might be double the cost of a return trip by bus.
 
You make a clear case that Niagara is destination (I was just tossing the idea out there) that's almost certainly infeasible. How about the rest? It's clear that when you have to factor in as much time for the ferry to the airport as for the flight itself, there's a bit of a problem.
 
jn_12 said:
So you're suggesting that people in Niagara (or wanting to get to Niagara) will want to cross the border with passport in hand?
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Where else would they put their passports? Presumably anyone going from Niagara in Canada to Buffalo airport is landing somewhere other than Canada, so they need passports anyways.
 
^did you forget your argument?

We were talking about trvel between Niagara and Toronto. Above, you said that people from Toronto could go to Niagara via Buffalo airport. So you're telling people to leave their country only to re-enter their country, thereby going from needing no ID to a passport and full on customs. Sure, if they're american they would have needed a passport anyways to get into Canada (or some other accepted card, that ultimately is useless when it comes to flying) but otherwise you're making things incredibly inconvenient. Also, people in Niagara would never travel to Buffalo just to get to Toronto.

Also, I'm from Niagara (with a parent in Buffalo), so I know the logistics quite well.


CDL.TO: As for K-W, I think the same holds true for the cost of riding a bus or train compared to the cost of flying. Taxes are probably double the price of a train or bus roundtrip ticket, and you're probably not saving any time. Porter just wouldn't be able to compete with the fares and wouldn't be able to advertise its biggest selling point - convenience.
 
jn_12 said:
^did you forget your argument
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No ... you weren't paying attention that's all.

jn_12 said:
We were talking about trvel between Niagara and Toronto. Above, you said that people from Toronto could go to Niagara via Buffalo airport.
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And I was replying simply to your erroneous comment that "Niagara doesn't even have an airport. (which is strange considering it's a top 5 global tourist attraction with a surrounding population of 500k)". As I said that "Even people in Toronto will drive to Buffalo ", clearly I wasn't talking about people flying to Buffalo.

Flying to Buffalo to go back to Ontario? That's just silly; besides, you can't get a car rental in the US, and bring it back across the border, if you are a Canadian resident, unless it has Canadian plates.

jn_12 said:
So you're telling people to leave their country only to re-enter their country, thereby going from needing no ID to a passport and full on customs.
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No, that's you who is raising that one. I was merely pointing out that they do indeed have airports, and that they use them for commercial flights. I was offering no commentary on people flying from Toronto to the suburbs ... and now that I offer a comment, my comment is that is the most absurd thing I've heard since putting a suspended park on top of the Gardiner!
 
jn_12 said:
CDL.TO: As for K-W, I think the same holds true for the cost of riding a bus or train compared to the cost of flying. Taxes are probably double the price of a train or bus roundtrip ticket, and you're probably not saving any time. Porter just wouldn't be able to compete with the fares and wouldn't be able to advertise its biggest selling point - convenience.
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I never suggested K-W. I know that one is waaay too close, and it doesn't have the large natural barrier that would give aircraft a huge time advantage (ignoring the time spent on the ground by a traveller).

The taxes issue really reflects the problem with flat taxes. Flying Sudbury-Toronto shouldn't be treated the same as flying Vancouver-Toronto.
 
Expanded service to Thunder Bay

Porter announced today that they are expanding their Thunder Bay service to all year, three times a day.

“Porter is seeing an overwhelmingly positive response to our unique service in Thunder Bay,†said Robert Deluce, president and CEO of Porter Airlines. “We’re pleased to be extending the summer program all year based on high demand.â€
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Year-round flights between Thunder Bay and Toronto launched


Porter Airlines now flying year-round to Thunder Bay (News Release)
 
Porter orders planes 19 and 20

Porter converted its last two options for Q400s today to order planes 19 and 20 for spring 2010 delivery.

Bombardier Sells Two Q400 NextGen Airliners to Porter

Bombardier Aerospace announced today that Porter Airlines of Toronto has placed a firm order for two Q400 NextGen turboprop airliners. The transaction represents the conversion of the last two options of 10 Q400 aircraft which were announced in 2006. Add the airline's original firm order for 10 Q400 aircraft, and today's transaction brings to 20 the number of firm orders placed by Porter.
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The business plan was for 20 planes and now there's a set time for that aspect of the plan to be complete. Between that and the new terminal it's now just a matter of survival. I think people will get a real sense of how Porter is doing once they've moved beyond this awkward teenager stage where some things are growing fast and others are struggling to keep up.
 
Most airlines though don't tend to keep up with their ambitious growth plans and certainly not in a recession. At the rate they are moving, they'll be maxing out the Island pretty soon!

At least the airport will be making money again....that'll take a bite out of its opponents' arguments that the airport is unprofitable and needs a subsidy to survive (all it needed was a reliable, revenue generating tenant).
 
kEiThZ said:
Most airlines though don't tend to keep up with their ambitious growth plans and certainly not in a recession. At the rate they are moving, they'll be maxing out the Island pretty soon!
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This from the Daily Commercial news

Islandairportnewterminal.jpg

SCOTT ASSOCIATES ARCHITECTS INC.

The new Porter Airlines terminal at the Toronto City Centre Airport is scheduled for completion by spring 2010. It will accommodate more than one million passengers a year

http://dcnonl.com/article/id33752
 
Porter Airlines to Distribute Its Full Content Through Travelport GDS
A new multi-year agreement sees airline's full content made available to all Galileo and Worldspan users worldwide

Langley, UK, 29.06.2009
Travelport GDS, one of the world’s leading global distribution system (GDS) providers, today announced a new multi-year full content agreement with Porter Airlines, giving all Galileo- and Worldspan-connected travel agents access to the airline’s full published fares and inventory, including access to the airline’s lowest web fares. Through the agreement, all of Porter’s published fares and inventory will be available to all users of the Galileo and Worldspan systems, including Galileo- and Worldspan-connected travel agencies, corporate customers and Travelport online agencies booking through Galileo and Worldspan. Porter Airlines will also be available through Travelport Agencia™, a revolutionary travel booking solution. Access to Porter Airlines will be implemented in a phased approach with Apollo customers gaining access beginning June 30th followed by Worldspan and Galileo in August.

More......http://travelport.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=397
 
^ Excellent news. Porter is really gaining popularity in Ottawa among government travelers. It's not easy to book though since they aren't tied into the major booking systems. This should solve that problem.
 
A destination I'm surprised they have not considered is Detroit Coleman Young (The City Airport).

Sure, Detroit is not a popular vacation destination, and it's importance as a business centre is plunging every day, but it still remains a very large metropolitan region with quite a few ties to Toronto.
 
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