Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

JasonParis said:
I've always personally felt that Hamilton's John C. Munro International is a better location for a second major GHTA airport. It never gets discussed much, although Pickering obviously does (and to some degree Billy Bishop and Downsview do too).
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My thinking though is that the Golden Horseshoe west is far more populated than the east and to make use of existing infrastructure. Still, point taken.
 
Any of the airport expansions just discussed (More at T1, Hamilton, Downsview, Oshawa) would cost what - $1B to $2B?

Spend $2B on better passenger rail, what would the reduction of short haul air ridership be? Toronto-Ottawa, Toronto-Montreal, Toronto - London?

Just sayin'.

- Paul
 
JasonParis said:
My thinking though is that the Golden Horseshoe west is far more populated than the east and to make use of existing infrastructure. Still, point taken.
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Though counter-intuitive, this is actually works against an airport west of Pearson. A western airport splits the west of the GTA with Pearson, leaving all the Eastern GTA and a good chunk of the Western GTA in the Pearson catchment area. If you built an airport in Hamilton or KW, the entire GTA east of, I dunno, the Oakville-Burlington border would still drain into Pearson. That's the bulk of the region's population.

Pickering's catchment area would have been smaller than Pearson's since the GTA is western-heavy, but bigger than Hamilton or KW.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
1. You were being more than a bit histrionic, IMO, about the future of the airport. I was just pointing out that it can stay what it is today. The long run can be really long sometimes - 50 or 100 years in this case. And how much Porter is worth is really a problem for Deluce. One of the problems with this whole scenario is how Porter's expansion has become equated with the airport's expansion. No need for either..
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How was what I said 'more than a bit histrionic?' My original question was "I wonder what the future of the Island Airport will be. Porter... couldn't be worth more than a few hundred million dollars in its current form. That seems like a glaring under-utilization of space so close to the downtown core with so much potential." That's hardly 'overly theatrical or melodramatic.'

As for the second part of your statement... airports and airlines are clearly linked. Atlanta wouldn't be Atlanta without Delta, for instance. My point was, if YTZ remains host to a modest regional carrier, the value of whatever air travel YTZ hosts will be minor compared to its potential value as retail/commercial/residential space.

Riverdale Rink Rat said:
2. Despite the fact that we've had a historic run of building housing units frenetically without crashing the market, there's no way we need to build out both the WT projects and a massive conversion of the airport to housing. It took 20+ years for CityPlace to build out, WDL, LDL, the Portlands, and East Bayfront will take the same amount of time.
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CityPlace didn't suck the oxygen out of other parts of Toronto developing and neither would the Portlands/LDL/WDL/EB. Those projects are big but they'd only be adding a few thousand units a year, which in the context of regional demand isn't actually super huge.

Moreover, I'd imagine the bulk of the areas you're describing would be built out by the time it would be hypothetically feasible to start converting YTZ to residential uses.
 
What's missing in this debate is separation of the runway extension and the jets issue. Extending the runway itself would have allowed Porter to fly a little farther and reduced operational restrictions. For example, Porter would have been able to reach Halifax directly in the winter. Deluce really blew it by lobbying for both the jets and runway at the same time.....
 
diminutive said:
Though counter-intuitive, this is actually works against an airport west of Pearson. A western airport splits the west of the GTA with Pearson, leaving all the Eastern GTA and a good chunk of the Western GTA in the Pearson catchment area. If you built an airport in Hamilton or KW, the entire GTA east of, I dunno, the Oakville-Burlington border would still drain into Pearson. That's the bulk of the region's population.

Pickering's catchment area would have been smaller than Pearson's since the GTA is western-heavy, but bigger than Hamilton or KW.
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Spot on. Air Canada is now pushing a "global hub" at Pearson. It (and the GTAA) have zero interest in splitting traffic in the GTA, other than generating a little bit more (with say Pickering) or utilizing existing infrastructure (a la Porter).

Rather than the runway or jets, the bigger issue for Porter is what this federal government will do with inter-city rail. High speed rail will result in Porter dramatically shrinking and becoming more trans-border and nothern ontario focused. Not a bad thing for tying Toronto to major commercial centres in eastern North America.
 
Duck said:
Yep, which is why it should be a dB limit, not an arbitrary technology exclusion. I hope Bombardier and Porter lay this on Council again, hard.
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How about this - no expansion of the runway, period. If you can't fly what you have on the runway that you have, that's your problem.

And at this point, it is out of the hands of the city.

AoD
 
What's the big deal about expanding the runway?

Building 100m more of concrete and pavement compared to any other infrastructure project in the city is peanuts.
 
Duck said:
What's the big deal about expanding the runway?
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I imagine it's fear of a slippery slope. Once the runway is expanded you need only made reasonable investments in the terminal and aircraft support/handling capabilities to increase the number of slots. Eventually a vehicle tunnel or bridge will be needed for increased emergency and vehicle parking access. However, assuming that comes with runway expansion, now that jets are becoming quieter than turboprops the sound regulations are moot; so runway length is the last bastion of the airport opponents.
 
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