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TKTKTK said:
Apparently Porter is doing quite well. They're supposedly turning quite a bit profit. I'm really looking forward to their NYC service. Even if the ticket's a bit pricier than competitors, it still shaves off $60(x2) in taxi costs and must easily save an hour and half of bureaucracy.
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Just as I was getting used to the tram at Pearson from Reduced Rate Parking... Porter came along, I'm hooked. I can even see my house from a window seat.
 
CDL.TO said:
I've had nothing but good experiences with Air Canada as well and often wonder where all these complaints come from.
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It's got to be the worst international airline I've ever flown, outside of Garuda, and ones from the USA. I am just amazed that there are positive comments. Back when there was competition, flying Canadian and Air Canada were night and day.

I just don't know where to begin, bitchy staff (I've even seen them arguing with each other), non-functioning electronics in seats (sure, these things happen - but why is it always that I find myself on Air Canada when they do), and lately - where on earth is the food? We were on a 5-hour flight to LA, and they were selling people meals? Good grief ... thousands of dollars for a ticket, and they want $5 for food??? Worst yet, I was on a 4-hour flight to Seattle, and they gave out this big menu of what food they had - and when they get to you ... oh no, you can only order cold food on this type of plane ... a 4-hour trans-con flight, and nothing but sandwiches? And then there's trying to board at Pearson. Invariably on Air Canada flights to the USA, there's a line, a mile-long to check-in. Why? Because it's cheaper from them to not have enough staff - the cheap bastards.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Andrea, why are you so against considering that Porter might be viable? The airline is privately owned (thus not subject to the demands of aggressive short-term profit demanding pension fund share holders) the owner is rich, he's paid for his planes outright, bought his own terminal, is operating out of one of the best located airports in North America, the planes are flying with good passenger loads, and apparently has good friends at the banks for when financing may be needed or preferred. Sounds like a perfect airline start-up.
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Because it's not financially viable. They are flying planes that aren't full, giving away tickets, burning through money like crazy trying to keep them in the air while spending a fortune on advertising every day hoping they might actually land a paying customer.

But my big problem with Porter is that it is keeping the island airport open. As soon as Porter's lenders turn off the taps, the airport can be closed.
 
Exactly. Do you have any tie or connection to Porter? Any inside information of any kind? Any knowledge that you don't extrapolate from rumours you've heard or newspaper articles you've read?

My opinion on the island airport is that it should be closed if there's a good plan for redevelopment, like the old Harbour City idea. If it's just going to sit as a fenced-off grassy field for a decade or two, then we may as well keep it as an airport.
 
CDL.TO said:
I've had nothing but good experiences with Air Canada as well and often wonder where all these complaints come from.

Though I've often heard people blame Air Canada for things that the airline has nothing to do with, such as customs or baggage getting lost in the processing system at the airport.
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I did not have a great experience with AC on both legs of my YYZ-BWI flight earlier this month, as both times there was a aircraft problem (on the way there, problem was found after pulling away from gate but still on the tarmac), made arrival about 1 hour late. On the way back a problem forced the aircraft to return to YYZ, so I was stuck at BWI for an extra 3.5 hours until the flight (with another plane) arrived. Yet the staff were great, and and at least got a rather generous $15 meal voucher. Aggrevating? Yes. Left me with a bad impression of AC? Not really, apart from the fact they've got look at replacing their Dash 8-100s.

The worst experience I had was Jetsgo (I have flown AC, West Jet, Jetsgo, Porter, Canadian, Delta, British Airways, Jetsgo the only one I really didn't care for). At least the market solved that problem.
 
unimaginative2 said:
Exactly. Do you have any tie or connection to Porter? Any inside information of any kind? Any knowledge that you don't extrapolate from rumours you've heard or newspaper articles you've read?

My opinion on the island airport is that it should be closed if there's a good plan for redevelopment, like the old Harbour City idea. If it's just going to sit as a fenced-off grassy field for a decade or two, then we may as well keep it as an airport.
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No none, other than a general interest in the airline buisness which tells me that when an airline is comping tickets (as everyone on Bay street knows, because they are all flying on those free or greatly reduced fares), flying for months with empty seats and spending a lot on advertising, they are burning through money at a great rate, which can't last in any buisiness.
 
AndreaPalladio said:
Because it's not financially viable. They are flying planes that aren't full, giving away tickets, burning through money like crazy trying to keep them in the air while spending a fortune on advertising every day hoping they might actually land a paying customer.
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Do you have evidence to this. The post you replied to, said they were making a lot of profit. Though I know a lot of people who are paying customers. And why not - it's a great service!!

AndreaPalladio said:
But my big problem with Porter is that it is keeping the island airport open. As soon as Porter's lenders turn off the taps, the airport can be closed.
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Most of the traffic at that airport isn't Porter. I don't know why one would think that Porter shutting down, would close the airport! Particularly as Air Canada is still suing to try and get back into the airport.

I just don't understand why anyone could be opposed to this airport. It's far more green that operating out of an airport in Mississauga. It's not like there is a shortage of greenspace along and in the lake already. And as we've discussed here, the noise issue is a red herring.
 
nfitz said:
I just don't understand why anyone could be opposed to this airport. It's far more green that operating out of an airport in Mississauga. It's not like there is a shortage of greenspace along and in the lake already. And as we've discussed here, the noise issue is a red herring.
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Miller campaigned on closing the airport, and if now miffed that the Feds won't close it for him. What Miller doesn't understand is that if they want to get rid of the airport, he needs to get people from Union to the Mississauga (Pearson) airport rapidly and reliably through a dedicated rail connection, and NOT a hodgepodge shared line with delays caused by CN/CP and GoTransit's trains or even worse forbid a subway extension. As long as it takes a hour or more at the end of the business day to get from downtown to Pearson, there will be a demand for Porter or the next airline at Toronto City Centre.

Miller should follow the Heathrow to Paddington Station dedicated express train in London, UK. Last time I took that train is cost about 15 pounds each way, not bad at all. Yes, the London train has funding from various levels of government that Miller likely won't have access to, but that's his problem to solve. If he wants to get rid of the island airport, he needs to solve the problem.
 
Admiral Beez said:
What Miller doesn't understand is that if they want to get rid of the airport, he needs to get people from Union to the Mississauga (Pearson) airport rapidly...
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That is what I have been saying all along. It makes no sense to try and stop what already exists legally. The airport is already there and prop aircraft are allowed to fly there. Miller talking about closing the airport and Adam Vaughan holding up signs with residents is pointless. If you want use of the airport to decline then provide the more convenient alternative.

The same thing is true for transit. Miller and council talk about how they support transit use and would like people to choose transit over the car. The problem is they do almost nothing to attract people to use it. Increasing fares doesn't increase ridership, the expensive Transit City project isn't going to attract people to transit unless it gets them where they want to go faster. Speed and cost efficiency are how you get people to take transit.
 
nfitz said:
Do you have evidence to this. The post you replied to, said they were making a lot of profit. Though I know a lot of people who are paying customers. And why not - it's a great service!!

Most of the traffic at that airport isn't Porter. I don't know why one would think that Porter shutting down, would close the airport! Particularly as Air Canada is still suing to try and get back into the airport.

I just don't understand why anyone could be opposed to this airport. It's far more green that operating out of an airport in Mississauga. It's not like there is a shortage of greenspace along and in the lake already. And as we've discussed here, the noise issue is a red herring.
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And if you speak to people in banking, or law, or consulting, or accountancy, you'll know how many of them are flying free, or at huge discounts, on planes that are not full. Anyone with any knowledge of the airline industry knows that the margins on that industry are very slim, even with planes are full of passengers paying full business class fares, which isn't the case with Porter.

Why are people opposed to the Island Airport? Well, it's a blight on the waterfront in terms of nose and air pollution. It's completely unnecessary and has been unprofitable for its entire existence.
 
Admiral Beez said:
What Miller doesn't understand is that if they want to get rid of the airport, he needs to get people from Union to the Mississauga (Pearson) airport rapidly and reliably through a dedicated rail connection, and NOT a hodgepodge shared line with delays caused by CN/CP and GoTransit's trains or even worse forbid a subway extension.
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Actually, a current plan involves extension of the St. Clair streetcar to the airport.
 
ITcomputer said:
LOL, I would rather pay the $35 cab fair than trundle along on a streetcar for an hour and a 1/2.
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What they're also forgetting is that a lot of airport users, such as myself, generally fly on business, which means the cost of the cab fair does not come out of my pocket. However, time use affects everyone; so find a solution that can get me from downtown to the airport independent of the highways within 20 minutes. Otherwise, the Island Airport will remain.

If Porter fails, do not be surprised if an American airline takes over the route. Perhaps Porter, when he tires of the airline, will sell it to an American firm. The government is in talks about allowing American airlines handle domestic routes within Canada. If this occurs alongside Pearson's poor access and high landing fees, we should expect increased traffic at Toronto City Centre and Hamilton airports.
 
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