jn_12
Senior Member
AC is apparently being held up by Transport Canada. There are some questions about whether AC will even move on to the Island given the difficulties they've been having.
Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup
TOareaFan
Superstar
Do you know what the issues are?
sjc
Active Member
I wonder if it has anything to do with this:
http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/decision-ruling/decision-ruling.php?id=30366&lang=eng
Section 60 of the CTA is in here: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-10.4/page-4.html
http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/decision-ruling/decision-ruling.php?id=30366&lang=eng
Section 8.2 of the ATR is here: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/SOR-88-58/page-2.html#codese:8_2
Section 60 of the CTA is in here: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-10.4/page-4.html
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Automation Gallery
Superstar
Nice...spring flights to Sault Ste. Marie and Windsor 
Porter Airlines adds Ontario cities as preemptive strike against Air Canada’s island arrival
..The popularity of the Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport was recently validated when IBM's supercomputer Watson evoked it as part of a response on "Jeopardy!"
While it turned out Toronto only had one airport with a name related to the Second World War, not two — and the fact the clue was in the category "U.S. Cities" — Billy Bishop's primary passenger carrier Porter Airlines responded to the attention by adding two destinations to its route map.
But, really, it's all about sticking it to Air Canada.
Flights to Ontario cities Sault Ste. Marie and Windsor will begin later this spring, announced Porter president and CEO Robert Deluce, who will soon share the downtown Toronto Island runways with the competition, albeit against his corporate will.
Air Canada, along with Continental Airlines, were granted a request for landing slots alongside the higher-styled and lower-priced Porter, which launched its regional service in the under-used airport in 2006. A previously announced February 2011 debut of Air Canada flights at Billy Bishop has been delayed, pending an agreement with Deluce, who also owns the terminal's operator.
Relations between the companies have been adversarial, to say the least, after Deluce evicted Air Canada from the island terminal five years ago as part of his start-up plan.
As part of the settlement that allowed for its return, Air Canada was ordered to pay $1 million each to Porter and airport owner the Toronto Port Authority, to cover legal costs.
The addition of the two smaller Ontario cities to Porter's list of mostly major destinations could be seen as a preemptive strike against plans for the forthcoming Air Canada Express.
Deluce, who sold his family's previous small airline to Air Canada in 1986 in a deal that included two unlimited first-class tickets for life, recently sued the flag carrier for $5 million after the passes were revoked.
Now, at least his future vacations to Sault Ste. Marie and Windsor will be covered.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...ptive-strike-against-20110225-110004-486.html
Porter to fly to Windsor, Sault Ste. Marie
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/02/25/wdr-porter-airlines-to-windsor.html
Porter Airlines adds Ontario cities as preemptive strike against Air Canada’s island arrival
..The popularity of the Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport was recently validated when IBM's supercomputer Watson evoked it as part of a response on "Jeopardy!"
While it turned out Toronto only had one airport with a name related to the Second World War, not two — and the fact the clue was in the category "U.S. Cities" — Billy Bishop's primary passenger carrier Porter Airlines responded to the attention by adding two destinations to its route map.
But, really, it's all about sticking it to Air Canada.
Flights to Ontario cities Sault Ste. Marie and Windsor will begin later this spring, announced Porter president and CEO Robert Deluce, who will soon share the downtown Toronto Island runways with the competition, albeit against his corporate will.
Air Canada, along with Continental Airlines, were granted a request for landing slots alongside the higher-styled and lower-priced Porter, which launched its regional service in the under-used airport in 2006. A previously announced February 2011 debut of Air Canada flights at Billy Bishop has been delayed, pending an agreement with Deluce, who also owns the terminal's operator.
Relations between the companies have been adversarial, to say the least, after Deluce evicted Air Canada from the island terminal five years ago as part of his start-up plan.
As part of the settlement that allowed for its return, Air Canada was ordered to pay $1 million each to Porter and airport owner the Toronto Port Authority, to cover legal costs.
The addition of the two smaller Ontario cities to Porter's list of mostly major destinations could be seen as a preemptive strike against plans for the forthcoming Air Canada Express.
Deluce, who sold his family's previous small airline to Air Canada in 1986 in a deal that included two unlimited first-class tickets for life, recently sued the flag carrier for $5 million after the passes were revoked.
Now, at least his future vacations to Sault Ste. Marie and Windsor will be covered.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...ptive-strike-against-20110225-110004-486.html
Porter to fly to Windsor, Sault Ste. Marie
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/02/25/wdr-porter-airlines-to-windsor.html
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Automation Gallery
Superstar
With all this movement can we expect to see further expansion of the terminal towards the hangers.
sjc
Active Member
TOareaFan
Superstar
maybe the spokesman was unavailable because he was busy meeting with the people at the Hull airport to see if they were interested in some flights? Just kiddin'
Just kiddin'sjc
Active Member
It looks like Air Canada is set to start flying from the Billy Bishop Airport in May.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/March2011/04/c8187.html
Automation Gallery
Superstar
sjc
Active Member
Here are the January 2011 numbers for major Canadian airports: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-007-x/2011001/t003-eng.htm
If you focus on the "Level I-III and foreign" column, which basically covers all the "real" airlines, the Billy Bishop airport does quite well. Airports busier than the BBTCA: Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal Dorval, Toronto Pearson, Ottawa, Quebec, Saskatoon, Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, Vancouver and Victoria. Considering that the BBTCA is looking at growth that could as much as double the number of current flights, we could easily pass Saskatoon, Thunder Bay, Victoria, Quebec and even Halifax, pushing us into the top 10.
EDIT: If you break it down into domestic vs. international flights (LINK), a few more airports come into play:
Domestic: Victoria, Vancouver Harbour, Yellowknife and Kelowna [and Thompson (LINK)] all have more domestic flights that the BBTCA
International: The BBTCA does better than Halifax, Quebec, Saskatoon, Thunder Bay and Victoria and is within striking range of Edmonton and Winnipeg (BBTCA is currently in 8th place internationally)
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jn_12
Senior Member
Sorry I didn't follow up on what I mentioned at the top of this page last week. Supposedly, AC's struggles to get started on the island had to do with the composition of procedural/security documents and Transport Canada's satisfaction with those documents. The issue is that any airline that wants to operate has to submit these documents to Transport Canada and Transport Canada can simply ask them to revise the documents if they aren't happy with something. Apparently the feedback from Transport Canada is minimal, so a company is left having to guess what will work and what doesn't. Also, given that the Island is a unique airport and the changes it's gone through since AC was last there, it wasn't as easy as copying and pasting whatever they used 5 years ago or the same documents from Pearson. This obviously sounds like bureaucratic red tape at its best, but it's the way it is in this heavily regulated industry.
Now, I will say that this might not be 100% accurate. It doesn't come directly from anyone inside AC, so it could be a case of broken telephone along the way.
Now, I will say that this might not be 100% accurate. It doesn't come directly from anyone inside AC, so it could be a case of broken telephone along the way.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Island airport tunnel construction slated for fall
The Toronto Port Authority hopes construction on the proposed tunnel to the island airport will be underway by fall of this year, a spokesperson said Saturday.
Suzanna Birchwood said she expects shovels to hit the ground before next winter and is confident the plan will pass its final hurdles -- a regulatory change at the federal level, an environmental assessment currently underway and a request to build the tunnel under city land.
The somewhat controversial project was moved forward last month when the federal government took steps to reverse a marine act amendment prohibiting "a bridge or similar fixed link" between the airport and the mainland. The amendment was instated in 2005 after former mayor David Miller campaigned against a bridge to Billy Bishop airport.
"We're very pleased (the federal government is) supportive of the proposed pedestrian tunnel," Birchwood told ctvtoronto.ca on Saturday, saying she expects the change to be complete within months.
The 123-metre tunnel's environmental assessment will also be made public in the coming weeks. Birchwood said the agency conducting it has informed her that the tunnel's construction bears the brunt of its environment impact.
The port authority is also waiting to hear from the city after a request for an easement of underground property through which it would like to build the tunnel. Birchwood says the most direct route runs through city-owned property, but notes it's not the only option if the city turns down the request.
"We could have gone less directly and stayed on federal property," she said.
If everything pans out, the tunnel could be finished sometime in 2013.
After complaints about taxpayers footing the bill for a private project, the TPA announced it will be funded by a $5 fee charged to travellers who fly out of the airport, which has been in place for the past year. Birchwood says a private investor is paying for the construction upfront, but a group fighting against the tunnel believes otherwise.
"Last we saw, they're going to put in $20 million of port authority money, which is public money, and the rest will be guaranteed by public money," Brian Iler, chair of a group fighting increased use of the island airport, told ctvtoronto.ca on Saturday.
He says his group, CommunityAIR, is "in no way convinced (the tunnel) is going to happen." With a rail link to the further afield Pearson airport slated for 2015, Iler believes demand for the downtown airport will drop significantly.
"No one has any confidence that Porter (Airlines) is going to survive," he said of the airport's existing commercial tenant, adding the trip to Pearson is worth cleaning up the shore of Lake Ontario. "We have to put up with some inconvenience to save our waterfront."
However, it doesn't look like the airlines share his dire prognostication. The port authority announced Friday that Air Canada will begin flying out of Billy Bishop on May 1. Continental Airlines is in the final stages of its own deal to use the airport.
While Iler says passenger traffic through the island airport is decreasing, Birchwood says it is projected to increase from 1.2 million people last year to 1.6 million in 2011. She says the tunnel will provide a back-up option in case something happens to the ferry, and will help disperse traffic at the foot of Bathurst Street, where it docks.
"If you get down there to catch your plane and (the ferry has) just pulled away, it's a 15-minute wait. People will know that under their own steam they can get there in six to eight minutes. Sometimes when the weather's not fabulous, the ferry ride is choppier … We need a backup system."
http://toronto.ctv.ca/story/th/20110305/island-airport-tunnel-plans-110305/
The Toronto Port Authority hopes construction on the proposed tunnel to the island airport will be underway by fall of this year, a spokesperson said Saturday.
Suzanna Birchwood said she expects shovels to hit the ground before next winter and is confident the plan will pass its final hurdles -- a regulatory change at the federal level, an environmental assessment currently underway and a request to build the tunnel under city land.
The somewhat controversial project was moved forward last month when the federal government took steps to reverse a marine act amendment prohibiting "a bridge or similar fixed link" between the airport and the mainland. The amendment was instated in 2005 after former mayor David Miller campaigned against a bridge to Billy Bishop airport.
"We're very pleased (the federal government is) supportive of the proposed pedestrian tunnel," Birchwood told ctvtoronto.ca on Saturday, saying she expects the change to be complete within months.
The 123-metre tunnel's environmental assessment will also be made public in the coming weeks. Birchwood said the agency conducting it has informed her that the tunnel's construction bears the brunt of its environment impact.
The port authority is also waiting to hear from the city after a request for an easement of underground property through which it would like to build the tunnel. Birchwood says the most direct route runs through city-owned property, but notes it's not the only option if the city turns down the request.
"We could have gone less directly and stayed on federal property," she said.
If everything pans out, the tunnel could be finished sometime in 2013.
After complaints about taxpayers footing the bill for a private project, the TPA announced it will be funded by a $5 fee charged to travellers who fly out of the airport, which has been in place for the past year. Birchwood says a private investor is paying for the construction upfront, but a group fighting against the tunnel believes otherwise.
"Last we saw, they're going to put in $20 million of port authority money, which is public money, and the rest will be guaranteed by public money," Brian Iler, chair of a group fighting increased use of the island airport, told ctvtoronto.ca on Saturday.
He says his group, CommunityAIR, is "in no way convinced (the tunnel) is going to happen." With a rail link to the further afield Pearson airport slated for 2015, Iler believes demand for the downtown airport will drop significantly.
"No one has any confidence that Porter (Airlines) is going to survive," he said of the airport's existing commercial tenant, adding the trip to Pearson is worth cleaning up the shore of Lake Ontario. "We have to put up with some inconvenience to save our waterfront."
However, it doesn't look like the airlines share his dire prognostication. The port authority announced Friday that Air Canada will begin flying out of Billy Bishop on May 1. Continental Airlines is in the final stages of its own deal to use the airport.
While Iler says passenger traffic through the island airport is decreasing, Birchwood says it is projected to increase from 1.2 million people last year to 1.6 million in 2011. She says the tunnel will provide a back-up option in case something happens to the ferry, and will help disperse traffic at the foot of Bathurst Street, where it docks.
"If you get down there to catch your plane and (the ferry has) just pulled away, it's a 15-minute wait. People will know that under their own steam they can get there in six to eight minutes. Sometimes when the weather's not fabulous, the ferry ride is choppier … We need a backup system."
http://toronto.ctv.ca/story/th/20110305/island-airport-tunnel-plans-110305/
sjc
Active Member
Air Canada is now selling tickets on the YTZ-YUL route.
Picking a random day (May 11), here is the schedule:
Leaving YTZ: 7:30, 8:30, 9:30, 10:30, 11:25, 12:30, 13:30, 14:30, 15:30, 16:30, 17:30, 18:30, 19:25, 20:30, 21:30
Leaving YUL: 6:45, 7:50, 8:50, 9:45, 10:50, 11:50, 12:50, 13:50, 14:50, 15:50, 16:45, 17:45, 18:50, 19:45, 20:45
The flight is scheduled to take 70 minutes each way.
Tango prices are showing between $149 and $189, Tango Plus $189-269, Latitude $509.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a slightly earlier flight first thing in the morning out of Toronto, but apparently they will be basing most of their planes in Montreal, with only one overnighting in Toronto.
EDIT: you can book connecting destinations as well. Prices start at $149 for YTZ-YHZ via YUL and $159 for YTZ-LGA.
Picking a random day (May 11), here is the schedule:
Leaving YTZ: 7:30, 8:30, 9:30, 10:30, 11:25, 12:30, 13:30, 14:30, 15:30, 16:30, 17:30, 18:30, 19:25, 20:30, 21:30
Leaving YUL: 6:45, 7:50, 8:50, 9:45, 10:50, 11:50, 12:50, 13:50, 14:50, 15:50, 16:45, 17:45, 18:50, 19:45, 20:45
The flight is scheduled to take 70 minutes each way.
Tango prices are showing between $149 and $189, Tango Plus $189-269, Latitude $509.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a slightly earlier flight first thing in the morning out of Toronto, but apparently they will be basing most of their planes in Montreal, with only one overnighting in Toronto.
EDIT: you can book connecting destinations as well. Prices start at $149 for YTZ-YHZ via YUL and $159 for YTZ-LGA.
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To compare (using the same day), with the 30% promo that Porter is currently running, prices range from $83.30 to $160 (firm) to $$296.80 (freedom), depending on the time chosen. There is also the middle fare category -- flexible, I think. Their earliest flight seems to be 6:55 am.
Darwinkgo
Active Member
Leaving before 7:00 takes up more than 1 slot according the noise rules. With few slots, Air Canada can't afford that.