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Baby, we got a bubble!?

interested said:
^^^
TheKingEast.
Can you give a couple of examples of prices that you feel are over ask that you would be seriously considering.
I am curious basically as to what you think is a reasonable 2 bedroom and what is a reasonable price for the property.
Also would be interested to hear what you consider a "good property" and which one(s) you feel are marginal and why.
Click to expand...

Do you have an hour or 5? I can go on and on.

I'd don't want to bog this place down with a whole wall of text. But I think most of downtown is overpriced by a large margin. There's value in Liberty Village though, and some other areas out east.

What I consider "good" is a well priced property with decent finishes (no carpeting, SS appliances, solid surface countertops, 50 cents/foot maintenace fees, gym, 24/7 concierge, quality construction, etc).

Here are what I consider quality properties:

http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14457250
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14347971 <- If the board gets their act together, this could be a good buy.

This is a smaller unit and isn't a 2 bed, but quality building, finishes, area, etc. Overpriced? Yes. But not terribly.
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14338738

Quality building. Good buy IMO
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14423244
Same building
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14495523

Quality building.
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14552330

Liberty Village. Good value here:
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14462876
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14514472

Area isn't the greatest but is quickly improving. Good quality building, well run. Good value
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14536239

Across the street. Good value
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14514240

Here are condos that are grossly overpriced IMO
$550/ft in that area? Madness
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14520267

Not sure of the square footage here, but I know the building. Half a million?
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14467496

Half a million? Cityplace? Would you pay?
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14341390

Would you pay?
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14541211

Poorly built building. A dorm.
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14443031

Across the street. $480K
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14437593

487K 600 sqft no parking
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14330501

I understand this is a high demand area but $600K?
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14550006

635 sqft
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14406435

807 sqft almost $600K
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14359712

All opinion. I assign a value to all properties. Prices are surpassing that value by a lot. I can't believe people are buying pre construction for even more. Sheer madness. While prices may go up, I just don't see how it makes any sense to grossly overpay for overpriced product in today's economic climate. Keep in mind, I'm not a "sky is falling" type, either. Quite the opposite.
 
^^^
Thanks theKingEast:

Are you are looking for this as a place to live or to rent out or are you just following the market and commenting in general?
I ask as I believe the criteria change a bit.
I agree to buy at these prices to rent is really to believe that interest rates will stay beyond 2015 and probably for at least another 3-4 years...otherwise I just don't know.
 
interested said:
^^^
Thanks theKingEast:

Are you are looking for this as a place to live or to rent out or are you just following the market and commenting in general?
I ask as I believe the criteria change a bit.
I agree to buy at these prices to rent is really to believe that interest rates will stay beyond 2015 and probably for at least another 3-4 years...otherwise I just don't know.
Click to expand...

I am looking at a 2 bed to live. I do check MLS daily though. Have been doing so for over 5 years now. From bachelors to mansions.
 
Following the real estate market here in Toronto really is like a pastime. I know people who do it on the regular regardless whether they're in current positions to buy or sell. It'll always get an intriguing conversation going as well. :)
 
TheKingEast said:
What I consider "good" is a well priced property with decent finishes (no carpeting, SS appliances, solid surface countertops, 50 cents/foot maintenace fees, gym, 24/7 concierge, quality construction, etc).
Click to expand...
So you want the most popular stuff out there, along with 24/7 concierge and a gym, but with fees of 50 cents/sf.

Sounds a bit tough to me.
 
We have that in our building, although with the cost of gas and hydro going up, it won't last much longer.
 
TheKingEast said:
I see high $/ft numbers in older buildings.
Click to expand...
TheKingEast:
We have to remember as has been mentioned before that often older buildings have the utilities included such as hydro so part of the higher number is misleading. Also, depending on the building some include cable and in some cases cable + the movie network. I own a unit in a building where this is the case. Also included is the amount for the locker and 2 parking spots and it comes to 64 cents/sq.ft. all in.

Where one to remove the $50/month commonly charged / parking spot, the $15-20 for the locker, and add another $50-$75 for the cable, this amounts to about 13 cents bringing the actual cost/sq.ft. comparing apples to apples to 51 cents/sq.ft. vs. buildings that the individual pays for these services on top of the 50 cents/sq.ft. often quoted.

Incidentally, the building I am talking about has swimming pool, party room, saunas and whirlpools, gym and 24/7 concierge...
 
interested said:
TheKingEast:
We have to remember as has been mentioned before that often older buildings have the utilities included such as hydro so part of the higher number is misleading. Also, depending on the building some include cable and in some cases cable + the movie network. I own a unit in a building where this is the case. Also included is the amount for the locker and 2 parking spots and it comes to 64 cents/sq.ft. all in.

Where one to remove the $50/month commonly charged / parking spot, the $15-20 for the locker, and add another $50-$75 for the cable, this amounts to about 13 cents bringing the actual cost/sq.ft. comparing apples to apples to 51 cents/sq.ft. vs. buildings that the individual pays for these services on top of the 50 cents/sq.ft. often quoted.

Incidentally, the building I am talking about has swimming pool, party room, saunas and whirlpools, gym and 24/7 concierge...
Click to expand...

I see. I was assuming that all of that (hydro, cable, parking, locker, etc) was exclusive of the 50 cents/sqft fee I quoted. Not all units come with parking or locker so I excluded that. Some you have to pay extra for heat pump. So I cut out all of that.

So, exclusive of cable, parking, locker, etc... it's easy to find a building with $0.50/ft maintenance fee.
 
TheKingEast said:
Liberty Village. Good value here:
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14462876

Half a million? Cityplace? Would you pay?
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14341390
Click to expand...

How are those two evaluated?

Liberty village $369k/721 sq ft = $512/sq ft., maintenance 54.1 cents/sq ft. (good buy?)
CP $470k/916 sq ft = $513/sq ft., maintenance 52.6 cents/sq ft. (overpriced?)

Prices are similar, but the maintenance is higher at Liberty village. LV is also further away from the city core but LV one is a good buy?
 
AKS said:
How are those two evaluated?

Liberty village $369k/721 sq ft = $512/sq ft., maintenance 54.1 cents/sq ft. (good buy?)
CP $470k/916 sq ft = $513/sq ft., maintenance 52.6 cents/sq ft. (overpriced?)

Prices are similar, but the maintenance is higher at Liberty village. LV is also further away from the city core but LV one is a good buy?
Click to expand...

Depending on your usage is the question. If it is as a rental, do the math and decide if the return makes sense.. If you wish to live there then it is quite reasonable. Please note that this maintenance price includes the maintenance of the parking spot and the locker so this is quite reasonable in my view. There are a lot of amenities. That said, a family member has a unit there and is quite happy with it.
 
AKS said:
How are those two evaluated?

Liberty village $369k/721 sq ft = $512/sq ft., maintenance 54.1 cents/sq ft. (good buy?)
CP $470k/916 sq ft = $513/sq ft., maintenance 52.6 cents/sq ft. (overpriced?)

Prices are similar, but the maintenance is higher at Liberty village. LV is also further away from the city core but LV one is a good buy?
Click to expand...


I base it on the quality of the buildings along with potential increase in value later in addition to if there was a recession, how would these units fare? I have experience with both buildings. I know people who bought in both. The LV one is better built. Finishes blow the CP one out of the water although I will admit, CP has nice amenities. I've seen everything at this building. Vomit, dog poop, garbage in the halls, noise, etc. Would never encourage anyone to buy a unit there for half a million or even half of that. I don't care what the market dictates. Then we can look at both communities. While CP is closer to the core, it is disconnected. It's full of traffic and is much less of a community than LV IMO. LV is more of a destination while CP is a pass through. CP is pretty much done. It's not changing. LV has a better vibe and there will be more projects coming.

IMO, the LV one is a better buy.
 
Liberty Village has the same dog poop/noise/vomit issues but there is more of a family/neighbourhood vibe going on there -- CP has more of the frat house vibe although their residents' group works hard to create a sense of neighbourhood
 
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