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Baby, we got a bubble!?

Might I suggest we pursue the logic of this a step further Ka1?

If interest rates stay down, building continues, and rents stay where they are(as they have for the past 10 years) why would prices continue to rise. I say this because if interest rates stay as low as they are for say the next 5-10 years, it is because the economy remains weak and cheap money is there to stimulate it. But if the economy is weak, where are the new jobs, where are the pay increases to justify any further price increase, where is the hope that things will get better to drive up prices. Who will be immigrating to the GTA if no new jobs or few are being created.

Who will bid up prices? Foreigners because in this scenario with no positive outlook factors for the GTA, who will see this as a place to invest to make money?

I appreciate you say market prices will move sideways/steady/slightly downwards and not "upwards" as I asked in the upper paragraph but if this plays out, does not at some point the investor pull out his money to invest in something he can make money at and will that not result in downward price pressure?

If on the other hand interest rates go up, then should not prices go down unless there is enough foreign money to offset all those locally and other investors who are marginal who could not handle a 2-3% or more interest rate increase?

In other words, unless we continue in a state of flux, with no improvement or "disimprovement" presumably something would have to eventually give one way or the other.
 
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Greater Toronto REALTORS® Report June Mid-Month Resale Housing Market Figures

The number of sales and the average selling price reported by Greater Toronto REALTORS® were both up during the first 14 days of June 2011. Sales through the first two weeks of June amounted to 4,787 – up 16% over the same period in 2010. The average selling price for these transactions, at $477,853, was up 9%.

“The spring has always been the busiest time in the resale market, but the results for May and the first two weeks of June represented a marked improvement over last year. Low mortgage rates have kept affordability in check and buyers have felt confident in paying for a home over the long term,” said Toronto Real Estate Board (TREB) President Bill Johnston.

The number of new listings on the TorontoMLS® between June 1st and June 14th was down by 8% compared to 2010.

“Listings have been in short supply this year, while a lot of people have been looking to buy. The result has been enhanced competition between buyers and more upward pressure on price,” said Jason Mercer, TREB’s Senior Manager of Market Analysis. “Strong price growth will prompt more home owners to list as we move toward 2012.”

Summary Of June Sales And Average Price June 1st to June 14th

City of Toronto (“416″)
2011 Sales: 1,913 | Average Price: $515,052
2010 Sales: 1,681 | Average Price: $467,983

Rest of GTA (“905″)
2011 Sales: 2,874 | Average Price: $453,093
2010 Sales: 2,458 | Average Price: $415,876

All of the GTA
2011 Sales: 4,787 | Average Price: $477,853
2010 Sales: 4,139 | Average Price: $437,039


OK KA1, you can continue to laugh at me (for now).
 
Greater Toronto REALTORS® Report June Mid-Month Resale Housing Market Figures

OK KA1, you can continue to laugh at me (for now).

Interested, there is no reason to laugh at you.

I like your thoughtful, well reasoned posts. It is just that both you and I have different view of the market.

Keep us enlightened with your posts.
 
Listing agent: Manuel Jaramillo, Sutton Group Realty Systems Inc., Brokerage

High Park

Location: Bloor St. W. and Dundas St. W.

Asking price: $629,900

Selling price: $720,000

Previous selling price: N/A

Size: about 1,500-sq. ft.

Lot: 21 by 105-ft., lane drive, one parking space

Taxes: $3,861.76 (2010)

Bedrooms: 4 plus 1

Bathroom: 2

Days on market: 7

Just a half a block away from the subway, this two-storey semi-detached home sold for well over the asking price in one week.

�gThis warm and inviting home has lots of character and is situated on a great family street,�h says listing agent Bill Mohan. �gThe basement has a nanny or in-law suite with its own entrance. And the shed would be ideal for an artist or could be used as a workshop.�h

The many shops, caf?s, restaurants and clubs of Bloor St. are all with walking distance.

Main floor has: living room with pocket doors, fireplace and hardwood floor; dining room with pocket doors, bay window and hardwood; renovated eat-in kitchen; bedroom with hardwood and walkout to yard.

On the second floor are: master bedroom with fireplace, bay window and hardwood; second bedroom with bay window and hardwood; third bedroom with hardwood; four-piece bathroom and a full size sauna.

Basement is finished and has a recreation room with hardwood; bedroom with broadloom, kitchen, four-piece bathroom, mud room with a tile floor and a walkout to a balcony.

Listing agent: Bill Mohan, Sutton Group Realty Systems Inc., Brokerage

Compiled by

From Saturday's The Star
==

From Saturday's The Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...fers-for-cul-de-sac-townhouse/article2063587/
 
KA1, am I missing something? Is this your house, or why are you posting this ad?

Speaking of ads, a few months ago I was looking at the Festival Tower units on MLS. I'd heard there were a lot of unsold and unrented units, and when I went to www.mls.ca there were 19 units (4 for rent, and 15 for sale) few showing on the map

http://www.realtor.ca/map.aspx?&vs=...false;chkWrk:false;chkFire:false;chkAll:false

But I know that sometimes there are listed ads that have not been mapped, so I did an advanced search on the address "80 John St". Sure enough the advanced seach resulted in an extra 42 units (9 rental, and 33 for sale), for a total of 61.
http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyResul...+john&mp=0-0-0&mrt=0-0-4&trt=1&of=1&ps=50&o=A

But the strange thing is that most of them were indeed mapped. But they were mapped at "80 John St" near Lawrence and the 401. It turns out that there are two John Streets in Toronto, each with a different postal code. It seems like quite a coincidence that 2/3s of the Festival Tower units available have been mistakenly mis-listed, and nobody at MLS has noticed over the last several months.
 
KA1, am I missing something? Is this your house, or why are you posting this ad?

Speaking of ads, a few months ago I was looking at the Festival Tower units on MLS. I'd heard there were a lot of unsold and unrented units, and when I went to www.mls.ca there were 19 units (4 for rent, and 15 for sale) few showing on the map

http://www.realtor.ca/map.aspx?&vs=...false;chkWrk:false;chkFire:false;chkAll:false

But I know that sometimes there are listed ads that have not been mapped, so I did an advanced search on the address "80 John St". Sure enough the advanced seach resulted in an extra 42 units (9 rental, and 33 for sale), for a total of 61.
http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyResul...+john&mp=0-0-0&mrt=0-0-4&trt=1&of=1&ps=50&o=A

But the strange thing is that most of them were indeed mapped. But they were mapped at "80 John St" near Lawrence and the 401. It turns out that there are two John Streets in Toronto, each with a different postal code. It seems like quite a coincidence that 2/3s of the Festival Tower units available have been mistakenly mis-listed, and nobody at MLS has noticed over the last several months.

Daveto, Finally I was able to coax you into making a post on this thread -- something that you have not done in a while.

First of all, it is not an ad. Just a write up of 'done deals'.

As TCW has correctly pointed out, I am drawing attention to the fact that the house went $ 90,000 over the asking price. Townhouse went for $ 50,000 over the asking price.

Somewhere 'over the rainbow' there are dark clouds with tornado following them. However, I still have to see them.
 
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Actually they are ads, in essence. IIRC, they're submitted by real estate agents themselves, and they use it to advertise their marketing prowess as agents for the sellers. Thus they are a very selected subset of transactions. Never do you see fire-sale type sales in this column. eg. Fixer upper with rotten baseboards going for 10% under asking never make it into this column.
 
Come one now, KA1, surely you know better?

The "done deals" section from the Globe's real estate section is hardly journalism. It is presented in support of the large volume of advertising revenue which print media received from real estate.

Here are some listings from www.guava.ca. (a proprietary site for a realtor) showing decreases of $100k, $30k and $150k in the listing prices of the 1st 3 properties, each of which remain unsold after more than 1 month. And I think these decreases are just as irrelevant as the "over listing" sale price on the deal liste in the Globe. Vendors misprice properties all the time.

C2064434 – C03 – 777 SPADINA RD, TORONTO, ON – $1,899,000
Price Change. Jun 17: $1,899,000 Mar 24: $1,999,000
Located In Famous Forest Hill Village With Ravine Lot Of 277 Ft Deep. Specific Architectural Art Design Property On Beautiful Landscaped Lot. 50 Feet Frontage Has A Potential To Build A Huge House. Famous School: Up-Canada, Forest Hill Collegiate, Bishop Strachan Surrounded. All Updated Casement Window, Hardwood Floor Though Out. Skylights, Sunroom, Clear View Backyard. Why Waiting? **** EXTRAS **** Refrigerator, 2 Stoves, Dishwasher,Washer & Dryer;…
C2064434 GoogleMap

C2110712 – C08 – 435 SUMACH ST, TORONTO, ON – $949,000
Price Change. Jun 17: $949,000 May 22: $979,000
Cabbagetown Victorian Renovation With Loads Of Warm Traditional Features And Open Concept Living. Lower Has In-Law Suite Or Space For The Teenager. Beautifully Landscaped Front And Back. Broadloom, Hardwood And Tile Flooring With Dark Wood And Exposed Brick Accents. 3rd Floor Master Has Cathedral Ceilings, Stained Glass, Wood Stove, Ensuite 3-Piece W/Walk-In Closets And Roof-Top Deck. Great Location: Steps From The Park And Riverdale Farm…

C2110712 GoogleMap
C2113162 – C04 – 212 LOCKSLEY AVE, TORONTO, ON – $999,000
Price Change. May 25: $1,049,000 Jun 17: $999,000
C2113162 GoogleMap
 
On the flipside, it's quite common to see price drops in the middle of sellers' market too. A property that's overpriced for a market is still overpriced for a market. And sometimes it's just the luck of the draw. So, a few individual examples on either side doesn't really help either argument IMO.

That's why I still prefer sticking with median and average pricing.
 
Come one now, KA1, surely you know better?

The "done deals" section from the Globe's real estate section is hardly journalism. It is presented in support of the large volume of advertising revenue which print media received from real estate.

Here are some listings from www.guava.ca. (a proprietary site for a realtor) showing decreases of $100k, $30k and $150k in the listing prices of the 1st 3 properties, each of which remain unsold after more than 1 month. And I think these decreases are just as irrelevant as the "over listing" sale price on the deal liste in the Globe. Vendors misprice properties all the time.

C2064434 – C03 – 777 SPADINA RD, TORONTO, ON – $1,899,000
Price Change. Jun 17: $1,899,000 Mar 24: $1,999,000
Located In Famous Forest Hill Village With Ravine Lot Of 277 Ft Deep. Specific Architectural Art Design Property On Beautiful Landscaped Lot. 50 Feet Frontage Has A Potential To Build A Huge House. Famous School: Up-Canada, Forest Hill Collegiate, Bishop Strachan Surrounded. All Updated Casement Window, Hardwood Floor Though Out. Skylights, Sunroom, Clear View Backyard. Why Waiting? **** EXTRAS **** Refrigerator, 2 Stoves, Dishwasher,Washer & Dryer;…
C2064434 GoogleMap

C2110712 – C08 – 435 SUMACH ST, TORONTO, ON – $949,000
Price Change. Jun 17: $949,000 May 22: $979,000
Cabbagetown Victorian Renovation With Loads Of Warm Traditional Features And Open Concept Living. Lower Has In-Law Suite Or Space For The Teenager. Beautifully Landscaped Front And Back. Broadloom, Hardwood And Tile Flooring With Dark Wood And Exposed Brick Accents. 3rd Floor Master Has Cathedral Ceilings, Stained Glass, Wood Stove, Ensuite 3-Piece W/Walk-In Closets And Roof-Top Deck. Great Location: Steps From The Park And Riverdale Farm…

C2110712 GoogleMap
C2113162 – C04 – 212 LOCKSLEY AVE, TORONTO, ON – $999,000
Price Change. May 25: $1,049,000 Jun 17: $999,000
C2113162 GoogleMap

Thanks to you and Eug for 'educating' me on this point. It did n't occur to me that done deals in effect is an indirect advertising. I shall keep this in mind for the future.

Once again, thanks to you and Eug.
 
Thanks to you and Eug for 'educating' me on this point. It did n't occur to me that done deals in effect is an indirect advertising. I shall keep this in mind for the future.

Once again, thanks to you and Eug.


i'm surprised you didn't know the G&M 'Done Deals' was glorified adverts !?!

additional info you may not have known is that some of the 'DD' have been as old as 1 year prior.
furthermore, most of the time they don't indicate that the property had been previously listed at a higher price, went through several price reductions and re-listings.
so the article may say sold over-ask in 2 weeks, but it could have been reduced by $100K and sat there for months and months.
 
i'm surprised you didn't know the G&M 'Done Deals' was glorified adverts !?!

Nothing to be surprised. I have admitted my ignorance on this matter. Go ahead. Pile on me -- anybody and everybody. As they say, you are never too old learn something new. Better late than never.
 
Nothing to be surprised. I have admitted my ignorance on this matter. Go ahead. Pile on me -- anybody and everybody. As they say, you are never too old learn something new. Better late than never.


sorry KA1, it wasn't meant as a criticism.

it's just sad to see what passes for 'news' when in reality they are nothing more than adverts.
and what annoys me the most is the dated and less than truthful info that gets posted.
where are the editors to verify the info ??? i thought that was part of the role of newspapers ... to verify facts, etc.
 
additional info you may not have known is that some of the 'DD' have been as old as 1 year prior.
I have never seen a 1 year old sale posted there. Are you sure about that?

I still like reading it though. It gives you at least some insight into what types of stuff people are buying, since it includes pictures and locations.
 

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