Alternatives to Transit City, the Spadina Extension, Yonge Extension, Etc.

[kEiThZ]

I thought I'd create a thread to let people vent their frustrations with the various transit developments in the region. This way the relevant threads can be reserved for more orderly discussion on the actual topic. Enjoy.

 

[Whoaccio]

Buses. Or lack thereof. Its ridiculous that out of 10b dollars not a penny is going to increasing the quality of bus service. I'm having difficulty finding the TTC's surface route ridership stats (used to be second or third link on a Google search...) but offhand I know that there are plenty of high ridership routes that are getting basically squat. Lawrence East, Dufferin, Vic Park and such. The TTC report on the Finch East express bus trial found that ridership at express stations increased 35% (!). About a quarter of that is from people migrating from non-express stops to express stops, but its still pretty impressive. And at no additional capital costs or operating costs. There is no reason to believe similar results couldn't be had elsewhere. Combined with relatively inexpensive things like establishing a system for all door boarding as well as longer articulated buses, diamond lanes, preferential signaling and maybe the odd cue jump, the benefits would seem to far outweigh the costs.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'll start off by proposing my alternative to Transit City. At $10 billion, we could have got nearly 33 km worth of subways. So I would propose the following:

1) Sheppard East subway extension to Scarborough Town Centre - 8.6 km
2) Bloor-Danforth Extension via Eglinton-Danforth - 5.8 km
3) Bloor-Danforth Extension to Sherway Gardens - 5.3 km
4) Sheppard West subway extension to Downsview - 4.4 km
5) Replace proposed SRT extension to Malvern with Transit City style (at-grade, centre of the street ROW) LRT on Progress and the Hydro corridor north of Sheppard). - 5.5 km of LRT = 1.1 km of subway equivalent costs. (Use much of the current SRT infrastructure like the yard).

This would all be on top of the current subway extensions to the Yonge and Spadina lines (after Steeles the province and York Region are picking up the tab anyway). If Mississauga was willing to chip in its fair share, the western extension of the Bloor-Danforth line could be extended to MCC. The remaining money (8.1 km of subway equivalent or 2.44 billion dollars) I would use to deploy curbside bus lanes in various places (some approximating current TC lines like and Sheppard East past Midland and some new ones like Ellesmere). Where affordable and justifiable I would consider LRT like Finch West or Eglinton West for example.

Beyond that if more money were to come along, the priority for me would be an Eglinton subway from the airport to Markham Road and build the DRL. I would save the construction of the bulk of the LRT network for the the third phase and it would include various projects: Progress LRT to Malvern via Centennial, Finch (East and West) LRT, Steeles (East and West), Ellesmere LRT from STC to UTSC, McCowan North, Kennedy Rd or Vic Park, Waterfront West and East, Jane or Bathurst,etc....I am not that great on the west end and there's a few parts of the city I don't know so there's obviously some places that I may have left out that would deserve LRT or BRT. Basically the point is I would have said LRT construction until I had finished a significant portion of the subway network.

 

[LowerBay]

I would use TC's $10B to bury and expand the Gardiner in a tunnel.

 

[kEiThZ]

I would use TC's $10B to bury and expand the Gardiner in a tunnel.

I would do that as an independent project to be paid for by tolls by the drivers who use them. It would kind of work like a congestion charge, discouraging driving and promoting transit but would not really impact those moving in and out of the fringes of the core. The project could also probably be accomplished by an independent corporation, or P3 involving the private sector so that the government does not have to deploy its own capital.

...and I'd save the 10 billion to improve transit.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I agree the most with Whoaccio. The bus network could have been tremendously enhanced for little capital cost. Also, private jitney service could be the best solution for suburb-to-suburb commuting and we should build HOV lanes in anticipation of this (before selling the rights to use them to these private operators).

As for rail expansion, the electrification of the GO network should proceed in such a fashion that trunk lines are formed through the core with subway-like frequencies.

For example, if there are trains every 15 minutes along the Milton and Georgetown corridors, once they get to Bloor station they have frequencies of 7.5 minutes in the off-peak - not too shabby. Once these join with the Lakeshore at Exhibition, they run with an average 5 minute frequency all the way from Exhibition through Union to the Distillery district, where the Milton or Georgetown line would split off to head up to Richmond Hill, continuing with 7.5 minute frequency to Scarborough GO station, where the other route would split off from the Lakeshore and continue as the Stouffville line.

If we did this, we'd combine the regional reach and speed of electric regional rail with the frequency of a heavy rail subway and we wouldn't even need a separate DRL. In Munich, for example, 8 S-bahn lines converge for a 9-station trunk run through the core with rush hour frequencies of 90 seconds!

 

[Amphibius]

Top priorities? Hmm, where do I begin...

In this order

• DRL (Eglinton-Eglinton)
• Bloor Danforth extensions to Scarborough Centre and Mississauga City Centre; provided gov't subsidies, cross-municipal partnership and private corporate backing (P3s)
• Eglinton premetro in an exclusive right-of-way from Guildwood GO Stn to Pearson Int'l Airport; continuous Kingston BRT from Queen/Coxwell all the way to the Metro Zoo
• Short-turn every second outbound Yonge train at the Sheppard Ave corridor thereby fully integrating the Sheppard subway into the YUS line (interlining)
• S(L)RT east of SCC to Malvern Town Centre; in the long-term could double-back trainsets along Sheppard or Finch Aves towards Don Mills Stn.
• Don Mills-Hwy 7 LRT in semiexclusive ROW from Eglinton East Stn to Cornell

In addition to that, for low to no additonal costs, we could implement a city-wide network of express bus route services that can already handle similar expectations of capacity loads and speed (60-80 riders per car per trip at 25-30 km/h) as LRT or subways without the gi-normous pricetags.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I think the most important things if you ask me are these:

• Add HOV lanes for busses and carpoolers to use. This includes on all Highways (not just 400-series) and on larger roads
• Transitways, such as the Mississauga, 407 and Finch Hydro Corridor transitways. Have these paved and also with LRT infrastructure, to allow for an expanded LRT network.
• Increased GO service, with Express service on all of Richmond Hill, Southern Georgetown, Stouffville to Mount Joy and Milton to Cooksville
• Better bus service

I still think that in terms of Transit City, Don Mills could easily be the best route if it connects to the King Streetcar at Broadview. While a complete Don Mills subway would be awesome, I think that the DRL only needs to go to Eglinton, with no need for expansion after that.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

a guy can dream can't he?

expropriate the 407, recycle the materials and sell them for a profit, divide the land and sell it off with the goals of collecting 150 billion dollars. then i'd spend the 150 billion dollars on transit improvements throughout the GTA.

 

[Dan416]

In no particular order:

-Replace the SRT with a subway from Kennedy to STC.
-Finish the Sheppard Subway to STC
-Expand the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview
-Downtown Relief Line Subway from Dundas West to Pape via Union
-Yonge Subway to Richmond Hill Centre
-Spadina Subway to Vaughan Centre
-Bloor Subway to Mississauga Centre
-Eglinton Subway from Keele to Laird
-Finch LRT from the airport to somewhere in the east
-Waterfront LRT to Port Credit
-Hurontario LRT from Port Credit to Brampton
-Don Mills LRT or subway as a continuation of DRL
-electrification of entire GO network
-Crosstown GO line via Summerhill
-GO Rail to Kitchener/Waterloo (via Georgetown)
-GO Rail to Orangeville (via Streetsville)
-GO Rail to Cambridge (via Milton)

 

[scarberiankhatru]

A Rocket bus network could be started for no money other than a few new signs, but it would help more people than anything else. It's the only transit project that would embody the whole 'rising tide lifts all boats' notion. Rocket service means more speed, which means more capacity; both lead to higher ridership. You could add some Rocket service to busy routes with no added buses (though 'local' service on a route like Finch might have be reduced to an unbearable 3-4 minute frequency to permit enough buses moved over to Rocket service).

GO improvements would be next (well, simultaneous...they'd take longer and cost more).

A DRL, of course.

The rest is mostly just details.

edit - Oh, and we should take every TTC and city employee to Lacuna Inc. and reprogram them so that transit is built and operated properly.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Oh and of course things I'd just like to see

-DRL (first of all) from Eglinton to Eglinton
-Eglinton Subway, starting at Don Mills to Keele, then extended on either side eventually to Pearson and Eglinton Go station.
-Kingston Road/Highway 2 LRT
-Viva Orange service from undetermined location, up Jane and to Major Mackenzie (otherwise known as Canada's Wonderland)
-Viva Blue Subway to Richmond Hill
-Viva Purple... Subway! (LRT would be fine)
-Full Finch LRT
-Dundas & Hurontario Subways
-Danforth Subway extension to STC
-Go Midtown line
-Perhaps even a Queen Subway?

 

[kEiThZ]

Lots of good ideas. However, what would you do with the situation we have today? So a lot of that GO stuff is already happening. The question for me would be how do you divvy up the Transit City money. Feel free to suggest GO improvements, but tell us how you'd pay for them.

 

[urbanfan89]

Lure over the head of the Hong Kong MTR or Transport for London or some similar organization to take over the board of Metrolinx.

Give him/her carte blanche.

We'll see how the rest goes.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ Metrolinx has a non-political board now. So we'll see how that turns out,