Affordable Condo in Vancouver: no parking or maintenance fees

[greenleaf]

This is one way to make affordable housing. I'm not sure I'd want no maintenance fees. I'd imagine discussions between residents on who is going to fix things might get heated, or one or two people would end up doing everything for the building.

From the G&M: Developer experiments with affordable condos near downtown Vancouver by Frances Bula

No parking. No fancy finishes. No costly marketing program. No speculators. No one who isn’t willing to do some building maintenance.

96 [of the 108] condos will go to buyers who will have to prove that they plan to live in the units and who agree to do some maintenance themselves instead of just paying standard condo-maintenance fees.

 

[junctionist]

In Toronto, we have Options for Homes. Their Junction project saw units available for around $130,000 a few years ago. I'm also curious as to how maintenance will be handled for these projects since I heard the word "freehold" connected with the Options project.

 

[cdr108]

96 [of the 108] condos will go to buyers ... who agree to do some maintenance themselves instead of just paying standard condo-maintenance fees. [/I]

i think that's a very poor decision.
i understand the motive to keep costs down for owners, etc but as some people have noted, maintenance for the building will be pushed to the side or fall on the hands of a few.

if the buliding doesn't have alot of amenities, i thnk $0.15-0.20 PSF would cover it.

 

[simuls]

if the buliding doesn't have alot of amenities, i thnk $0.15-0.20 PSF would cover it.

I think some people have the misconception that amenities cost a lot, in terms of maintenance fees, but they don't. Even with a pool, it's usually only around 5% of the total budget for a condo per year.

 

[cdr108]

I think some people have the misconception that amenities cost a lot, in terms of maintenance fees, but they don't. Even with a pool, it's usually only around 5% of the total budget for a condo per year.

5% here, 5% there, it all adds up.
a large portion of maintenance fees is labour: 24 hour conceirge, weekly cleaning staff, etc.
eliminate/or minimize those and the fees come down dramatically.

 

[urbandreamer]

I like the idea here--more like a co-op building really. What I don't like--the prices: What a joke! How can a $40k income afford a $300k condo?

What I really think the developer is doing: driving up property values in an area they invested in heavily years ago when it was still cheap. Let the low income folks get stuck for life in an "up-and-coming" 'hood, then screw them over as the area becomes unaffordable.... Or maybe, since smart money is staying clear of real estate in Vancouver, they're betting dumb money--always behind on trends--get suckered into the marketing scheme?

 

[simuls]

5% here, 5% there, it all adds up.
a large portion of maintenance fees is labour: 24 hour conceirge, weekly cleaning staff, etc.
eliminate/or minimize those and the fees come down dramatically.

You're absolutely correct. 24 hour concierge is one of the dumbest things around. Still, a good 45% goes to water, gas, electricity, garbage. Does anybody know if there have been any attempts to educate condo owners (in your own building perhaps) about how these types of costs are not shared equally. For eg., if you take 2 20 minute showers daily and the person next to you takes 2 3 minute showers, this second person is, in effect, subsidizing your shower? Same goes for gas (pumping heat/ac), etc.

 

[Coltaine79]

You're absolutely correct. 24 hour concierge is one of the dumbest things around. Still, a good 45% goes to water, gas, electricity, garbage. Does anybody know if there have been any attempts to educate condo owners (in your own building perhaps) about how these types of costs are not shared equally. For eg., if you take 2 20 minute showers daily and the person next to you takes 2 3 minute showers, this second person is, in effect, subsidizing your shower? Same goes for gas (pumping heat/ac), etc.

Well, don't make the assumption that all condos are still "condo fee covers all utils". I don't know the case in Vancouver specifically, but during my last condo search in T.O. I'd say a good 50% of the ones I visited had separate utils.

 

[simuls]

Well, don't make the assumption that all condos are still "condo fee covers all utils". I don't know the case in Vancouver specifically, but during my last condo search in T.O. I'd say a good 50% of the ones I visited had separate utils.

I don't know of a single condo that has separate utitlities, except for hydro (phone, cable are not utilities). Every condo has bulk water, gas, garbage, etc.. Which ones had these listed separately? Seriously. I'd be really interested to know how they do that as it might be a model.

 

[Coltaine79]

I don't know of a single condo that has separate utitlities, except for hydro (phone, cable are not utilities). Every condo has bulk water, gas, garbage, etc.. Which ones had these listed separately? Seriously. I'd be really interested to know how they do that as it might be a model.

OK. In the Yonge-Sheppard and North York City Centre area, I found a number which had separate Hydro + Heat/HVAC. Coincidentally, all of them except for one are Menkes-built.

28/30 Harrison Gardens blvd
31/35 Bales ave.
4968/4978 Yonge st.
30 Canterbury

At 28/30 Harrison each unit has their own furnace with a gas line connection to Enbridge! One unit I viewed, the resident was a bit strange and he told me that during the spring and summer, he would call Enbridge and completely cancel the gas connection so his gas bill for those months was effectively zero. Which sounded a bit strange, so he was probably bullshitting.

Anyways when i said "separate utilities" I wasn't referring to water and garbage I was only referring to Heat and Hydro.

 

[simuls]

That is bizarre!! I wonder what the rationale is for doing such a thing. It must cost the developer more no? Although environmentally it might end up being better.

 

[Coltaine79]

That is bizarre!! I wonder what the rationale is for doing such a thing. It must cost the developer more no? Although environmentally it might end up being better.

There are a couple of reasons why it's better to have all HVAC services controlled at a unit-level rather than Building-level:

- more green, environmentally friendly; all rational residents will make an attempt to conserve

- save residents' money, follows my point above

- better quality of living (since you're not beholden to the condo board's decision when to "turn on" the A/C and Heat - you can blast the A/C in the winter, and the heat in the summer if you like)

- better if you're an investor, you don't need to care about your tenants' abusing the HVAC since they're paying for it

Disadvantages:

- the HVAC system takes up quite a bit of space. in 1 BR's it's noticeable, and in most cases the space it takes up is "ugly" - it really sticks out

- you have to deal with potential issues, i.e. breakdowns etc.

- extra bill for you to pay

- you can't abuse it by blasting the heater to 30 degrees in the winter, since you're on the hook for the usage. if heat's included, then you can do whatever you want since you're just one resident out of ~300 and it's unlikely that the other residents will "see" you abusing the system and follow suit.

 

[cdr108]

OK. In the Yonge-Sheppard and North York City Centre area, I found a number which had separate Hydro + Heat/HVAC. Coincidentally, all of them except for one are Menkes-built.

that probably explains what i see in Menkes floorplans and why they have their HVAC systems outside on the balcony

 

[Coltaine79]

that probably explains what i see in Menkes floorplans and why they have their HVAC systems outside on the balcony

Yes, i assume for safety reasons, natural gas powered furnaces need to "vent to outside" or something.

another reason i shied away from those condo units... i didn't like the idea of basically having a natural gas line running into my bedroom (more or less!)

 

[tamlin]

In Toronto, we have Options for Homes. Their Junction project saw units available for around $130,000 a few years ago. I'm also curious as to how maintenance will be handled for these projects since I heard the word "freehold" connected with the Options project.

I'm curious where you heard that. Heintzman Place will be a standard condominium with maintenance fees. They were originally estimated at $0.34 PSF, but those calculations will need to be revised. Heating/cooling was going to be included, but will now be metered individually, so that will lower the fees. But HST and something else that I forget (fuel costs?) will raise them.