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A YUS Idea

Woodbridge_Heights said:
+1. I'm no transit planner but connecting NYCC and STC to York University could (would?) push ridership up near 10 000 riders per hour. I mean what's the current ridership on the express bus from Downsview?

Add in the developing Downsview lands and Sheppeard E corridor as well
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Advocates always vastly overestimate demand and underestimates or gloss over costs. I have to laugh at some of the suggestions I've read on here about building subways to Cherry Beach or the Beaches.

Do some math. There are 50,000 people that use the York U campus daily. From what I have read in the past, the split is about 50/50 between those living in Toronto and those living beyond.

The overwhelming majority that arrive at Downsview head down into the subway to go south. Even if you assumed everyone in Toronto headed to York would use transit instead of driving (and York isn't slowing down on building parking lots), you'd have to make many more huge leaps to get to that 10K number, like assuming half of them want to go east at Downsview (not true), and that all students, faculty, and staff arrive and leave the university within the same peak hour (not true).
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
I mean what's the current ridership on the express bus from Downsview?
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196 Rocket is scheduled every two minutes during peak times:

http://www3.ttc.ca/Schedule/schedule.jsp?Route=196N&Stop=DOWNSVIEW_STATION

Note that only 1 of every 3 actually carries on to service Sheppard station on the Yonge line.

That's 30 buses an hour. Assume every bus is absolutely crammed to the gills (definitely not reality) with 50 - 60 people, you would be lucky to get even anything close to 2000 an hour, the vast majority coming from the University line, not Yonge.
 
There are also TTC passengers travelling on the Orange VIVA bus on the same route. And many who take the other buses to York University from Downsview.
 
106 is every 8'15" - 7.3 buses per hour. Orange is 4 buses per hour. 107 (Keele North) also runs from Downsview to Campus, and is 7.3 buses per hour. That's almost 50 buses an hour - but only about 2,500 pphpd. Might be hard to hit 10,000 ... however York has the advantage of generating a lot of off-peak ridership. I bet that it will be one of the busier stations on the system, despite neither being a terminus, or having any buses.
 
nfitz said:
106 is every 8'15" - 7.3 buses per hour. Orange is 4 buses per hour. 107 (Keele North) also runs from Downsview to Campus, and is 7.3 buses per hour. That's almost 50 buses an hour - but only about 2,500 pphpd. Might be hard to hit 10,000 ... however York has the advantage of generating a lot of off-peak ridership. I bet that it will be one of the busier stations on the system, despite neither being a terminus, or having any buses.
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You are calculating the demand on the Spadina extension, yet we were talking about the Sheppard West extension.
 
Paleo said:
Even if you assumed everyone in Toronto headed to York would use transit instead of driving (and York isn't slowing down on building parking lots), you'd have to make many more huge leaps to get to that 10K number, like assuming half of them want to go east at Downsview (not true), and that all students, faculty, and staff arrive and leave the university within the same peak hour (not true).
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Woodbridge_Heights's post was about the total ridership of Sheppard subway pushing towards 10K per hour, not just those riding Sheppard subway to York U.
 
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Steeles West 60 bus is indeed very crowded between Finch Stn and Bathurst, but gets half-empty west of Bathurst. The problem can be solved just by adding 3 or 4 more buses to the route, and running them as a very short branch between the subway and Steeles / Carpenter (one block west of Bathurst).

The capital cost of adding 3 or 4 buses is $2-3 million, this is 800 times less than the cost of a 8-km subway branch ($2.4 billion at $300 million per km).
 
Rainforest said:
Steeles West 60 bus is indeed very crowded between Finch Stn and Bathurst, but gets half-empty west of Bathurst. The problem can be solved just by adding 3 or 4 more buses to the route, and running them as a very short branch between the subway and Steeles / Carpenter (one block west of Bathurst).
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The TTC is aware of this demand pattern, which is why there are a huge number of buses running the 60C branch which goes back and forth between York U and Finch Station. The main purpose of the branch is to serve the huge cluster of apartments/condos at Bathurst and Steeles, but quite a lot of people are going to and from York U as well. I would further increase service on 60C, instead of creating a new branch.
 
Rainforest said:
Steeles West 60 bus is indeed very crowded between Finch Stn and Bathurst, but gets half-empty west of Bathurst. The problem can be solved just by adding 3 or 4 more buses to the route, and running them as a very short branch between the subway and Steeles / Carpenter (one block west of Bathurst).

The capital cost of adding 3 or 4 buses is $2-3 million, this is 800 times less than the cost of a 8-km subway branch ($2.4 billion at $300 million per km).
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Or introducting articulated buses on the route.
 
nfitz said:
I'd think Steeles (and Finch, etc.) would be the perfect routes for articulated buses.
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Dunno, the slow loading time and high probability that someone will ring every stop would really kill the speed on local runs. Maybe they could introduce new Artics with a special "Rocket" paint scheme, and run them on busy Rocket routes (190 Sheppard - STC Rocket, 193 Exhibition Rocket, 196 York U Rocket, 199 Finch Rocket). They could introduce a Steeles Rocket while they're at it.

Plus then Toronto would have a quasi-BRT system just like Brampton and York Region (but with actual BRT on the 196).
 
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A simple yet effective way to improve service along the line would be to introduce POP or some sort of off-board payment system so that people don't have to hold ip the bus to pay while boarding. The TTC could also work out an agreement with YRT to allow the 88 and 23 routes to pick up TTC passengers en route to the subway.
 
reaperexpress said:
The TTC is aware of this demand pattern, which is why there are a huge number of buses running the 60C branch which goes back and forth between York U and Finch Station. The main purpose of the branch is to serve the huge cluster of apartments/condos at Bathurst and Steeles, but quite a lot of people are going to and from York U as well. I would further increase service on 60C, instead of creating a new branch.
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One problem on #60 is bunching of buses, particularly at the end of PM rush (6-8 pm). Buses show up at Finch in packs of 3 or 4, and when they depart Finch, first 2 are sardine-packed. Somehow, neither 60C nor the express branch 60E prevent that.

I suspect that the eastbound traffic jam that often forms between Keele and Dufferin is partly to blame. The other part might be the way buses go out of service at the end of PM rush. Some eastbound buses in the PM only reach Bathurst or Yonge / Steeles, which makes no sense from the demand pattern standpoint. It looks like they are supposed to reach the subway, pick up the bulk of passengers there, head west, and retire to the Arrow Road garage after most of passengers have left. But because the operator is late, he short-turns at Bathurst or at Yonge / Steeles and creates a gap in the westbound service from subway.

A short Bathurst branch (round trip about 30 min) could fill those gaps easier than an enhanced 60C branch (round trip 50 - 60 min).
 
Rainforest said:
One problem on #60 is bunching of buses, particularly at the end of PM rush (6-8 pm). Buses show up at Finch in packs of 3 or 4, and when they depart Finch, first 2 are sardine-packed. Somehow, neither 60C nor the express branch 60E prevent that.

I suspect that the eastbound traffic jam that often forms between Keele and Dufferin is partly to blame.
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Nah, it's all because of the unionized workers and the lack of SIGNALS.
 
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