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407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...e-kitchener-toronto-wynne-announces-1.3634285 This will mean CN will move most of its freight traffic from its current section of the Kitchener corridor – between Georgetown and Bramalea
If that is not a typo, we're in trouble. Perhaps CBC meant "remove" instead of "move"? Del Duca distinctly stated "Bramalea to Milton", but I really want to see a map and words in print.
Also in September, GO will introduce a new express bus service running all day between Kitchener and the Bramalea GO Station in Brampton -- with the service timed to connect with GO rail and bus services to and from Union Station in Toronto.
If that is looped at Milton, it will allow the 29 to/from Guelph to intersect, and Milton area locals to have a faster way into Toronto. I can't see running an express from Guelph, the last one they had (the 39, one trip each way a day) averaged about 8 riders.
 
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Don't worry about CP. A three-way deal would have been impossible to manage. Starting with CN is prudent.

CP can now contemplate what's possible if they buy in..... sellout to GO, redevelop properties in Toronto, etc. That's good for negotiations.

This gives CN a great deal that they would want - a freight route with no commuter or intercity passenger interference. Shorter, less gradient, and one fewer major bridge (Stewarttown) to maintain. Longer sidings likely without grade crossings in the middle.

Note that we haven't seen the purchase price for the Bramalea-Georgetown segment yet. The last laugh will not be from the taxpayer. All the same, it moves us forward in some really good ways.

- Paul
 
If that is not a typo, we're in trouble. Perhaps CBC meant "remove" instead of "move"? Del Duca distinctly stated "Bramalea to Milton", but I really want to see a map and words in print.
In RER Business Case Appendix A the fright traffic becomes primarily nighttime only to service freight customers only.

All through freight service is removed.

However, there are still many legacy customers along the corridor that still needs service.
 
If that is not a typo, we're in trouble. Perhaps CBC meant "remove" instead of "move"? Del Duca distinctly stated "Bramalea to Milton", but I really want to see a map and words in print.
I can't even tell what the "trouble" would be, according to your interpretation.

The freight traffic is to "move" from the current Brampton line to the new freight line. Freight will be removed from the existing line, and added to the new line. I think you're probably reading too much into specific words.
 
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This trio of government levels have been nothing short of incredible from a rail-based infrastructure point of view.

(Aside: Part of me, I'm also left saying... "Hello Hamilton councillors, YOO HOO -- Look at what is happening to Kitchener Waterloo. Letting the Hamilton LRT get built will make it more likely for Hamilton GO electrification to happen." -- in response to our local LRT circus. Work on the LRT progresses as there has not been a "MOTION TO ORDER STOP WORK ON LRT" -- over $6M OF $1B has been spent on our local LRT office ramping up the plans/blueprints -- but our upcoming September vote, on the defacto equivalent of a "STOP WORK" motion, is going to be a lot of theatrics.)
 
Isn't that a little premature? Would you like to post your annoying meme in the high speed rail thread too just because Del Duca did a press conference?

No, not really.

The freight bypass is far more likely to happen than any high speed rail proposal due to CN's agreement that allows the provice to invest in electrification on the entire Kitchener corridor.

And at the very least, the other announcements today such as the $43M investment in the King-Victoria Transit hub as well as all-day express GO service to Bramalea are very good news for the Kitchener-Toronto corridor and will help further enable trips and grow ridership.

The GIF is justified, I'm sorry you're annoyed.
 
The freight bypass is far more likely to happen than any high speed rail proposal due to CN's agreement that allows the provice to invest in electrification on the entireKitchener corridor.

And at the very least, the other announcements today such as the $43M investment in the King-Victoria Transit hub as well as all-day express GO service to Bramalea are very good news for the Kitchener-Toronto corridor and will help further enable trips and grow ridership.

That doesn't mean the freight bypass is a sure thing. Even some projects that were funded a long time ago still haven't been build. And this government could be defeated in the next election which is only a couple of years away. But yes, I agree that the other announcements are good news and something to look forward to.
 
I can't even tell what the "trouble" would be, according to your interpretation.

The freight traffic is to "move" from the current Brampton line to the new freight line. Freight will be removed from the existing line, and added to the new line. I think you're probably reading too much into specific words.
In the event, the *specific wording* means a lot:
This will mean CN will move most of its freight traffic from its current section of the Kitchener corridor – between Georgetown and Bramalea
CN will *remove* all *their* freight from the line, since it's just overhead rights on a leased out section. Although GEXR's lease comes to an end next year, *someone* will still lease the service freight rights over that line. Ostensibly, that will be renegotiated as *temporally*....albeit this is one of the many details we don't know yet. That might not sit well with whatever union, if any, GEXR has.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/35/2/parlbus/...2ev-e.htm?Language=E&Parl=35&Ses=2&comm_id=19
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goderich–Exeter_Railway

Paul made an excellent comment in a very good post that I agree completely with, and we're not always on beam on some issues, this one we are...I'm still holding my breath on this one! Need more details, but Paul writes:

Note that we haven't seen the purchase price for the Bramalea-Georgetown segment yet. The last laugh will not be from the taxpayer.

The most important spec of a project is the price! If all things align, this will end-up saving lots of money, but that's a bargaining hand for CN. Their weasel words are even less sincere than the politicians'. Committing to this before knowing the costs could spell 'disaster'. Hopefully it's 'trade for like' rather than hard cash figures.
 
Thanks for the link, I've been out all day, about to catch up, and it remains for the press to do an in-depth look at this. The shiny words polished in a press conference mean little. I want maps and details, and *$$$ figures!*

Some of us are more cynical than others I guess, but I'm completely with Paul on this. It's all a bit too slick. *It could be* a great deal. We just don't know yet. And where is CP? I know you're one of the careful cynics too, Salsa. Wynne is desperate for good press. But who pays for it?
 
No, not really.

The freight bypass is far more likely to happen than any high speed rail proposal due to CN's agreement that allows the provice to invest in electrification on the entire Kitchener corridor.

And at the very least, the other announcements today such as the $43M investment in the King-Victoria Transit hub as well as all-day express GO service to Bramalea are very good news for the Kitchener-Toronto corridor and will help further enable trips and grow ridership.

The GIF is justified, I'm sorry you're annoyed.

I have a question....may be dumb...

I always assumed that they needed both CN and CP to sign on before this could happen. In particular....Milton. How is the CN line going to get from Milton to the 407? I always thought the CN line would turn onto the CP ROW through Milton. And then just before Winston Churchill it would use the Hydro ROW to get to the 407. (and CP would likewise use the CN line in the east)

Without CP on board, how will the CN get to the 407? A new ROW either south or north of Milton? It'll certainly add to the cost.
 
I have a question....may be dumb...

I always assumed that they needed both CN and CP to sign on before this could happen. In particular....Milton. How is the CN line going to get from Milton to the 407? I always thought the CN line would turn onto the CP ROW through Milton. And then just before Winston Churchill it would use the Hydro ROW to get to the 407. (and CP would likewise use the CN line in the east)

Without CP on board, how will the CN get to the 407? A new ROW either south or north of Milton? It'll certainly add to the cost.
Not "dumb" at all. You are *right* to be asking this question, and others! Watch this like a hawk. It's all a bit too slick for my liking. My sixth-sense is buzzing, and of course, you're looking for an answer where there are none at this time. That was my immediate question too, so had to listen doubly hard to the live announcement carried live on Youtube until I heard "Bramalea to Milton". I'd only caught the live proceedings half way through, and it was really cagey and ambiguous until Del Duca got asked at the end from a journalist and had to state it clearly. The fact that a journo was asking for clarification is interesting in itself. It wasn't just me noting the ambiguity throughout. (Edit to Add: A surmise: CP was originally meant to be included, but things got complicated for whatever reason, so they had to 'dance' around not mentioning CP)

Here's what I presume, partly from what I've gathered previously: Between the Milton alignment (Old Hamilton NW) up to Georgetown, a new cutoff is to be installed to a *new track* (this was always on the table) to parallel CP until the cutoff along the Hwy 407/Hydro One xmssn corridor to Bramalea. This is still pretty nebulous though...it could we be that negotiations are still ongoing with CP, and you can bet your leaky booties it's to do with value of some sort. Another poster has linked to a dollar figure, I suspect it's not that simple, but *assigning value* to assets is most likely what much of this is about. For instance, a proposal might go: (CN to CP or vice versa) "We'll provide the RoW between X and Y for single track if you provide RoW between V and W". Add in the Province and the Feds, and who contributes what, and/or overhead rights, running rights, etc and you have a complicated negotiation, and indeed, Transport Canada might have to intercede to mandate some aspects to make this happen. 'Arbitration' with a dose of legislation.

Here's something I think I can state for some other posters too: The announcement was *necessarily* premature. The lack of any sign of CP could be for many reasons, but one thing undeniable is that the absence was *incredibly conspicuous*.

I suspect a number of us are scouring to get something more substantial on this beyond the facile headline announcement.
 

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