doady
Senior Member
Hmm... did I ever say that it was? Did I, doady, ever state that York University is located on the 401? Or do you just like to add a new meaning to my posts just like everyone else on this forum?
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401 Rapid Transit?
- Thread starter Tcmetro
- Start date
Hmm... did I ever say that it was? Did I, doady, ever state that York University is located on the 401? Or do you just like to add a new meaning to my posts just like everyone else on this forum?
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
It's an excellent place to put transitway because it's shown that it bisects the City well. As for pedestrians walking there, it'd be pretty easy to build stations under major roads. The only reason that overpasses are to unwalkable is because they are designed so. If you build a transit station underneath, I'm sure that they'd make the overpass a bit more pedestrian-friendly!
It doesn't make much sense for bus service because the corridor already needs rail transit, and there aren't a lot of routes that could use it.doady said:
Northern Magus
Active Member
Thanks for your clarification. I had meant the original extension that stopped well short of York.
It's taken the TTC 30+ years to fix that mistake.
kettal
Banned
Quite simply, there is nowhere worse to build a rail transit corridor than a freeway. Nowhere.
drum118
Superstar
I still say build an elevated line using LRT/EMU that pass over north-south road with connection to major ones. Not every road will require a station IE: Yonge since there is no station nor surface route in the first place. Avenue Rd would be another.
North-south routes would stop under it in the curb lane for connection with protection from the weather.
In some places, you would get walk-up traffic, but very few.
It should be from Pickering to Milton.
You could allow for further interlining connection to say: 427, 400, 404, 27, Hurontario, Jane, Don Mills, etc lines.
Building it using precast guide way and columns, you could put up 10 miles a year once the footing are in place. It can be more using more than one contractor. Time lag would be making the precast items.
Nothing stopping this from being a subway with higher speed.
North-south routes would stop under it in the curb lane for connection with protection from the weather.
In some places, you would get walk-up traffic, but very few.
It should be from Pickering to Milton.
You could allow for further interlining connection to say: 427, 400, 404, 27, Hurontario, Jane, Don Mills, etc lines.
Building it using precast guide way and columns, you could put up 10 miles a year once the footing are in place. It can be more using more than one contractor. Time lag would be making the precast items.
Nothing stopping this from being a subway with higher speed.
Tcmetro
New Member
I've thought about it, it doesn't sound like a good idea to built a subway along the freeway (unless the stations aren't on the freeway, but the area between stations is).
Sheppard Subway from Scarborough CC to Mississauga CC or Brampton?
Sheppard Subway from Scarborough CC to Mississauga CC or Brampton?
kettal
Banned
It's more than just building a sidewalk. The traffic around freeways is too fast to make a pleasant pedestrian area. The on-ramps to the freeways are difficult to walk across, and feel unsafe. There is lots of noise and smog spilling over from the highway.
These make it very difficult for pedestrian friendly environments to be built in this corridor.
Northern Magus
Active Member
golodhendil
Active Member
Why? There are plenty of examples around the world of urban and suburban rail corridors/stations along freeways/highways that are very successful and well-used. As long as the area around the stations are well developed or if the stations are well connected, there is nothing inherently worse about a railway corridor along a freeway.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
I can't see why it would not be successful. The 401 hits every major North-South Street and comes close to every major city centre. Even Square One would not be that far off a 401RT.
The only thing making it unfeasible is the remarkable expense of building something like this and the lack of development returns. But I doubt that ridership should be in question. I see a lot of pondering about walk-ins. However, out in the suburbs (where the 401RT would be) most riders arrive at stations by buses. Walk-in ridership is not necessary to make the 410RT a success.
The only thing making it unfeasible is the remarkable expense of building something like this and the lack of development returns. But I doubt that ridership should be in question. I see a lot of pondering about walk-ins. However, out in the suburbs (where the 401RT would be) most riders arrive at stations by buses. Walk-in ridership is not necessary to make the 410RT a success.
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Northern Magus
Active Member
I think you've hit the nail right on the head. In the case of the 401, there's not nearly enough high-density, mixed-use destinations. If, however, it was on the Gardiner, you might actually be able to pull it off.
golodhendil
Active Member
I've already updated my post after the point came to mind over lunch.
Chuck
Senior Member
If the 401 rapid transit line was viewed in the same regard as the 401 itself, it might work. Hardly anyone starts their trip exactly at an on ramp and ends their trip exactly at an off ramp. Instead, their trip starts some distance from the on ramp, ends some distance from the off ramp, and the highway itself is simply a high speed connector.
In order for 401 transit to work, there would have to be an extensive, convenient, and complete network of intersecting transit lines. There are many people who might live near Jane and work near Don Mills who could use the 401 transit line to connect the two. Trains on the 401 itself would have to be frequent, high speed, and stop only at intersecting subway and LRT lines.
Toronto does not have anything close to an extensive network of high capacity north-south transit lines. Therefore, Toronto is in no way ready for a 401 transit line. Let's check back in a decade and see where things stand.
Note: I would hazard a guess that on the inner 401 between Pickering and Mississauga, most commuter trips average 15-20 km on the 401 itself - trips along the lines of Pickering to the DVP, 400 to the airport, or Yonge to Scarborough. Transit trips would mirror this typical distance, so don't expect throngs of people to travel 75 km from Pickering to Mississauga. This is why the ability to connect to north-south transit lines is of utmost importance. The 401 is primarily used as a connector - not to service points actually along the 401. 401 transit would be the same.
In order for 401 transit to work, there would have to be an extensive, convenient, and complete network of intersecting transit lines. There are many people who might live near Jane and work near Don Mills who could use the 401 transit line to connect the two. Trains on the 401 itself would have to be frequent, high speed, and stop only at intersecting subway and LRT lines.
Toronto does not have anything close to an extensive network of high capacity north-south transit lines. Therefore, Toronto is in no way ready for a 401 transit line. Let's check back in a decade and see where things stand.
Note: I would hazard a guess that on the inner 401 between Pickering and Mississauga, most commuter trips average 15-20 km on the 401 itself - trips along the lines of Pickering to the DVP, 400 to the airport, or Yonge to Scarborough. Transit trips would mirror this typical distance, so don't expect throngs of people to travel 75 km from Pickering to Mississauga. This is why the ability to connect to north-south transit lines is of utmost importance. The 401 is primarily used as a connector - not to service points actually along the 401. 401 transit would be the same.
jks
Continuous Lurker
Ok, I think the simplest thing to do with the 401 is to make some of the lanes HOV. I would say 2 per direction, one in express, one in collectors.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
With a Sheppard LRT connecting the Sheppard Subway, a Finch West LRT and the Eglinton LRT, a 401 Expressway RT will not happen!