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40 & 50 Alexander St. and 55 Maitland Street - Village Green, Greenrock. 19s, 19s, 30s.

dt_toronto_geek

dt_toronto_geek

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I went back 12 pages in Buildings and see no post, so here we go. The Village Green Property is up for sale in the heart of the Church Wellesley Village. A Greenrock property at 77 Davisville is also listed. It’s not known what can be proposed here, at the Village Green site, anything imaginable is possible. For for $100M+ (I’m guessing at the low end of a selling price) they won’t remain rentals, that’s simply not a wise investment for 700 existing rental units. Demolition of entire site for perhaps 5 point towers? Adding point towers to the property “as is”? I can see two point towers staggered at the north/west corner of the site with demolished & rebuilt underground footings and parking garage on Maitland St, perhaps even a tower on Alexander St between buildings #40 & 50. Here’s the site from Google maps with Alexander St at the bottom, and Maitland St at the top.
 

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dt_toronto_geek said:
I went back 12 pages in Buildings and see no post, so here we go. The Village Green Property is up for sale in the heart of the Church Wellesley Village. A Greenrock property at 77 Davisville is also listed. It’s not known what can be proposed here, at the Village Green site, anything imaginable is possible. For for $100M+ (I’m guessing at the low end of a selling price) they won’t remain rentals, that’s simply not a wise investment for 700 existing rental units. Demolition of entire site for perhaps 5 point towers? Adding point towers to the property “as is”? I can see two point towers staggered at the north/west corner of the site with demolished & rebuilt underground footings and parking garage on Maitland St, perhaps even a tower on Alexander St between buildings #40 & 50. Here’s the site from Google maps with Alexander St at the bottom, and Maitland St at the top.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine how they can demolish rental towers unless they can replace in full all rental units, and I am not sure how they can add towers without running afoul of separation requirements.

AoD
 
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Assuming the site we're being sold for redevelopment, and not ongoing income.........let's look at it:

1696556607921.png


Site Size, a bit over 60,000ft2

So, what could we build here?

Absolutely nothing, if we leave what's extant.

So, let's start with a clean slate assumption.

You've got 40M depth, which is only enough for one building depthwise; but 140M length, which is enough for ~ 3 towers with 750m2 floor plates.

This allows for 20M separation distance x 2, and 12.5M from each side.

This west side is heritage building on a narrow lot next to a park; it is not really developable and you could probably encroach further.

The east side is a relatively new condo, and I allotted 12.5M which is more than is currently the case.

If you maxed out the dimensions in a rectangular fashions (deeper vs longer) you could allow for greater separation distances if desired.

At 3 towers, at 12 units per floor, , excluding grade, each 20 storeys gets you 200 units (per tower) or 600 units total.

To me, this indicates a modest problem. I think when you allow for replacement rental, I would want at least 2.5x the unit total to make the numbers work.

That represents something in the 1800 unit number here.

To get that, you need 3x 60s?

Hmmmm, not impossible.......... I wonder if you could just replace the rectangular slab with 2 towers, and leave the cylinder?

Yes, you can, you get 2 towers to replace the slab. Hmmmm

I can see a workable path here, but its not easy. It requires a lot of height, and ideally, floor plates a bit over 750m2, which I think I could sell to planning here.
 
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Looking at the big picture:

Toronto Model 10-06-23 50 Alexander St.png


I placed a circle at 250 metres and another at 500 metres to show how close this is to Young St:

Toronto Model 10-06-23 50 Alexander St2.png


Here is what is proposed / upcoming nearby - in the 250 metre circle there is 34 Maitland, 198 metres, 61 stories, Also 35 Maitland, 165 metres, 49 stories.
In the 500 metre circle there is Church & Wellesley, approx. 100 metres, Young at Wellesley Station, 129 metres, 40 stories, 510 Yonge, 197 metres, 59 stories, 475 Yonge North, 247 metres, 75 stories, 475 Yonge South, 256 metres, 78 stories, 2 Carlton, 251 metres, 73 stories.

I don't know much about precedent, but that is a lot of tall buildings nearby...
 
A Torontonian Now said:
What about more of a 700 Bay sort of Frankenstein addition?
Click to expand...

If you're leaving the extant towers, but trying to add, presumably to the rectangular slab (40); you've got only 30M separation distance to the cylindrical tower (50).

That limits you, to the outer max, to an additional 10M, presumably done hammer-head style, but w/that creating its own privacy issues where the addition meets existing.

Given the enormous hassles of that, the limited space for any new elevator shaft, I don't think so. Can't say it would be impossible, but it doesn't seem fiscally appealing to me.
 
Northern Light said:
If you're leaving the extant towers, but trying to add, presumably to the rectangular slab (40); you've got only 30M separation distance to the cylindrical tower (50).

That limits you, to the outer max, to an additional 10M, presumably done hammer-head style, but w/that creating its own privacy issues where the addition meets existing.

Given the enormous hassles of that, the limited space for any new elevator shaft, I don't think so. Can't say it would be impossible, but it doesn't seem fiscally appealing to me.
Click to expand...

I was thinking that if the structure could take it, this would also involve adding a few stories on top of the existing slab building, which is where the real money would be.
 
Would three 70-80s towers work with complete teardown? What about units in a podium along the entire street front?
 
rdaner said:
Would three 70-80s towers work with complete teardown? What about units in a podium along the entire street front?
Click to expand...

My analysis offers that 3x60 is what I think you need, but would be a hard sell, I think.

Though the 78s approval at 475 Yonge I reported on today might clear the way to that; but there you have your upper band, you won't get over the 78s on Yonge.

You could do more units in a shared podium, but you lose a lot of green space, and softscape, and the City would likely frown on going too far w/that.

One thing to watch for here would be shadow impacts on Dr. Lillian MacGregor Park

The City let 475 slide on that, so it might be fine, but different profiles at differing spots will vary in impact.
 
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According to an article on these properties in Renx, current market rents are about 43% higher than in-place rents for these buildings.

Additionally, only 30% of the units have been renovated since 2014.

All of that is to say, there's still a lot of value-add opportunity here for a prospective buyer -- to improve them and increase rents as tenants turnover -- so I don't think they'll be going anywhere anytime soon.

I think it screams the kind of deal that a REPE fund like Starlight or Hazelview would do. But, we'll see.

I am also going to make the assumption that because these building's were developed by descendants of the sellers' family (as far as I understand), they'll be looking for a buyer who's going to treat the property with the same amount of respect that they did.
 
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