News   Nov 18, 2024
 682     0 
News   Nov 18, 2024
 372     0 
News   Nov 18, 2024
 1.2K     1 

204 Beech - A Family's Battle to Build a Home

Though perhaps someone like AGTO might hold Brantford council up for praise for just going ahead and getting rid of the decrepit trash right in the face of the hysterical preservationists--and wish Toronto would have the guts to do likewise.

likewise adma...it's amazing how ignorant and pompous some hard core forum posters can be.

Okay, AGCO, now that I've slurred you above, may I ask, without slurring--what is heritage to you, and what is your impression of, well, "the state of heritage" out there? And what would you do to, er, "reform it"? And maybe get a bit autobiographical, psychological, in your answering, so we can know what makes you tick.

And don't answer with a curt "amazing how ignorant and pompous" type of response. I'd like to wheedle you out.

Otherwise...somehow, I think some of this generalized hostility is the result of, well, message-boarding building and development geeks who've been so conditioned t/w the "projects and construction" end as to be absolutely tin-eared t/w creatively appreciating the entirety of what already exists--and this isn't even directly about heritage; rather, I'd view it as a necessary prerequisite t/w "getting" heritage, and indeed, preemptively looking beyond the NIMBYs-and-schoolmarms stereotype. It's sexier that way--though maybe not if you're inclined t/w Heavy-Metal-chick or Tom-Of-Finland-dude idealism in your preferred definition of "sexy"; if so, that's your problem.

And maybe it's in the blood, esp. if some of the younger UTers are the offspring of building/development/whatever types who were driven to a This Ain't The Rosedale Library-esque brink of financial/psychic despair thanks to having to deal with hostile preservationists and NIMBYs...
 
Interestingly, I just came across this

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-suburban-first-avenue-estates/?ref=nyregion

June 25, 2010, 1:07 pm
Court Upholds Landmark Status of City and Suburban First Avenue Estates
By ROBIN POGREBIN
The New York Appellate Court on Thursday unanimously upheld the landmark status of the City and Suburban First Avenue Estates on Manhattan’s Upper East Side. In 2006, the two tan-brick apartment houses were designated a landmark, even though the owners had reclad them in reddish-pink stucco, drastically changing their appearance.

“The two buildings clearly have a historical significance that justifies their designation as landmarks,” the court said in its decision.

“I commend the court for making the right decision,” said Council Member Jessica Lappin, who represents parts of the Upper East Side and Roosevelt Island and was formerly chairwoman of the council’s landmarks committee. “Now the owner should restore these buildings to their former state and stop fighting a losing and wrongheaded battle with the community. The ugly pink stucco has to go.”

Brian Maddox, a spokesman for the Stahl York Avenue Company, which owns the property, said: “We are weighing all legal options, including an appeal, which will permit us to pursue our interest in developing the property.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/arts/design/29landmarks.html?_r=1

November 29, 2008
Preserving the City
Preservationists See Bulldozers Charging Through a Loophole
By ROBIN POGREBIN
Hours before the sun came up on a cool October morning in 2006, people living near the Dakota Stables on the Upper West Side were suddenly awakened by the sound of a jackhammer.

Soon word spread that a demolition crew was hacking away at the brick cornices of the stables, an 1894 Romanesque Revival building, on Amsterdam Avenue at 77th Street, that once housed horses and carriages but had long served as a parking garage.

In just four days the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission was to hold a public hearing on pleas dating back 20 years to designate the low-rise building, with its round-arched windows and serpentine ornamentation, as a historic landmark.

But once the building’s distinctive features had been erased, the battle was lost. The commission went ahead with its hearing, but ultimately decided not to designate the structure because it had been irreparably changed. Today a 16-story luxury condominium designed by Robert A. M. Stern is rising on the site: the Related Companies is asking from $765,000 for a studio to $7 million or more for a five-bedroom unit in the building.

The strategy has become wearyingly familiar to preservationists. A property owner — in this case Sylgar Properties, which was under contract to sell the site to Related — is notified by the landmarks commission that its building or the neighborhood is being considered for landmark status. The owner then rushes to obtain a demolition or stripping permit from the city’s Department of Buildings so that notable qualities can be removed, rendering the structure unworthy of protection.

“In the middle of the night I’m out there at 2 in the morning, and they’re taking the cornices off,” said Gale Brewer, a city councilwoman who represents that part of the Upper West Side. “We’re calling the Buildings Department, we’re calling Landmarks. You get so beaten down by all of this. The developers know they can get away with that.”

The number of pre-emptive demolitions across the city may be relatively small, but preservationists say the phenomenon is only one sign of problems with the city’s mechanism for protecting historic buildings.

“This administration is so excited about the new that it overlooks its obligation to protect the old,” said Anthony C. Wood, author of “Preserving New York: Winning the Right to Protect a City’s Landmarks.”

In an interview Robert B. Tierney, chairman of the Landmarks Preservation Commission, called end-run alterations and demolitions “a terrible situation and a complete misuse of the process.”

He added that the commission was trying to address the issue. Before putting a property on the calendar for landmark consideration, for example, Mr. Tierney or the commission’s staff members meet with owners to explain the potential benefits of landmark designation —a federal tax credit for repairs or improvements, for example — in the hope of enlisting cooperation or even support.

“Owner consent is not required, but I strongly try to obtain it whenever possible,” Mr. Tierney said. “It helps the process going forward. It’s not a continually contentious relationship.”

But some owners pay little heed. In one of the most memorable cases, a wrecking ball destroyed a corner tower of the former Paterson Silks store near Union Square on March 8, 2005. The double-height glass tower was the signature feature of the building, designed by the architect Morris Lapidus, known for his flamboyant Miami Beach hotels.

A few hours later the commission, seemingly oblivious, agreed to schedule a hearing on the building’s future.

Preservationists were outraged, particularly because they had been trying to bring the building to the commission’s attention for at least three years. Yet the owner, Donald J. Olenick, vice president of BLDG Management, then a co-owner of the building, said he did not understand the objections. “This is certainly not the Plaza Hotel,” he said the day the tower toppled. “I’m a little surprised anyone was concerned about it.”

For years, preservationists seeking to save midcentury Modernist architecture in New York have sought landmark status for 711 Third Avenue. That William Lescaze building, near 45th Street, features a wall mosaic in the lobby by the artist Hans Hofmann. Just last month the owner, SL Green Realty, began tearing out the lobby’s distinctive blue mosaic ceiling, as well as the door surrounds by the Abstract Expressionist sculptor José de Rivera. The Hofmann artwork will be preserved; the de Rivera may be relocated within the lobby.

A spokeswoman for the landmarks commission, Elisabeth de Bourbon, said the lobby had been under review as a potential interior landmark. Upon learning of the demolition, she said, the commission entered into “a standstill agreement,” under which the owner was prohibited from altering the Hoffmann mosaic during the reconstruction. A spokesman for the owner said that a formal agreement had not been signed.

As for the rest of the lobby, Ms. de Bourbon said that because of alterations in the 1980s and the current renovation, it was not landmark-worthy.

Under current rules, once a landmark hearing has been scheduled, building owners may not obtain demolition or alteration permits. But if such a permit is secured before a hearing is scheduled, as was the case with Dakota Stables and 711 Third Avenue, the work may proceed without penalty.

Safeguards crumble because the landmarks commission and the buildings department lack an established system of communication, and commissioners often are unaware that permits have been issued. There is also no set procedure by which the buildings department alerts the commission when someone seeks a permit to strip off architectural detail.

Some City Council members are determined to change that. Tony Avella, who represents northeastern Queens, has introduced a bill that would require the buildings department not only to withhold demolition permits but also to suspend existing ones and issue a stop-work order when the commission schedules a hearing to consider landmark status for a structure.

Another bill, proposed by Rosie Mendez, a city councilwoman representing the Lower East Side and the East Village, would require the commission to notify the buildings department as soon as a property comes under consideration, even if a hearing has not been scheduled. The department would then alert the commission if an owner applied for a work permit. Both bills are wending their way through the council.

A school in Ms. Mendez’s East Village neighborhood galvanized her to introduce the bill. In June 2006 the landmarks commission designated former Public School 64, a French Renaissance Revival building on East Ninth Street near Tompkins Square Park, as a landmark over the objections of its owner, Gregg Singer.

After that designation, Mr. Singer used an alteration permit that had been granted in 2003 and stripped the terra-cotta elements and copper cornices from the building’s exterior. This month a State Supreme Court judge in Manhattan upheld the school’s designation as a landmark despite the architectural changes. But the damage remains.

“Because of a loophole, if there is an existing permit you can move forward, irrespective of the designation of the building,” Ms. Mendez said. “It was alarming to me that it was happening.”

Mr. Tierney said he had talked with City Council members about the bills but was also working to address the problem by improving the commission’s database to include information about permits that have been requested or issued.

“We’re not just sitting back waiting for legislation,” he said. “We have ramped up the interaction and communication.”

Under current procedures, when an owner of a building that is under review by the commission applies for a demolition permit, the commission has 40 days to schedule a hearing on the structure.

But “it is difficult to put together a designation in that time frame,” Mr. Tierney said. And when it comes to an entire historic district, he said, the job “is difficult if not impossible.”

At times the commission can move swiftly. When a northern swath of the Crown Heights neighborhood in Brooklyn was placed on the calendar in June 2006 for consideration as a historic district, a developer quickly obtained a demolition permit for the George B. and Susan Elkins House, the only known free-standing mid-19th-century wood-frame house remaining in the area.

“We pulled the building out of sequence and did an individual designation in two to three weeks,” Mr. Tierney said.

Sometimes landmark designation is awarded after major alterations. In 2006, for example, the commission reinstated protection for two tan-brick apartment houses on the Upper East Side known as the City and Suburban Homes, even though the owners had reclad them in reddish-pink stucco, drastically changing their appearance.

“It was a Pyrrhic victory,” said Seri Worden, executive director of Friends of the Upper East Side Historic Districts. “Now we have a red stucco building, but it’s a landmark.”

In the case of Dakota Stables, some preservationists have accused the landmarks commission of deliberately dragging its heels. “The commission had no intention of designating Dakota Stables,” said Kate Wood, the executive director of Landmark West!, a preservation group. “They waited until it had been torn down. It was clearly too late for them to do anything meaningful.”

“It was all so carefully orchestrated,” she added. “It was politics. It was all just theater.”

But Mr. Tierney said he fought genuinely hard to have the case heard. “It was knock-down, drag-out time trying to do everything we could do to have a fair and open hearing on that building,” he said.

He also said he was “extremely unhappy with how the owners proceeded” on Dakota Stables and on Paterson Silks, yet added, “That’s two out of thousands — not to minimize them.”

Mr. Stern, the architect who designed the Harrison, the luxury condominiums replacing Dakota Stables, said the late-night demolition created “a controversial and awkward moment,” adding, “I don’t like to tear anything down if I don’t have to.”

Some commissioners say the landmarks commission and the buildings department should adopt a more reliable alert system to prevent pre-emptive demolitions. “When a property owner goes to the buildings department for a permit to strip, it should be a red flag,” said Roberta Brandes Gratz, who has served on the landmarks commission since 2002.

Christopher Moore, a commission member, also said the situation demanded redress. “There is a standard of honor I wish the developers would follow,” he said.

“The landmarks commission should have greater authority” over the granting of demolition permits, he added. “All of a sudden, the cornice is gone.”
 
Though perhaps someone like AGTO might hold Brantford council up for praise for just going ahead and getting rid of the decrepit trash right in the face of the hysterical preservationists--and wish Toronto would have the guts to do likewise.



Okay, AGCO, now that I've slurred you above, may I ask, without slurring--what is heritage to you, and what is your impression of, well, "the state of heritage" out there? And what would you do to, er, "reform it"? And maybe get a bit autobiographical, psychological, in your answering, so we can know what makes you tick.

And don't answer with a curt "amazing how ignorant and pompous" type of response. I'd like to wheedle you out.

Otherwise...somehow, I think some of this generalized hostility is the result of, well, message-boarding building and development geeks who've been so conditioned t/w the "projects and construction" end as to be absolutely tin-eared t/w creatively appreciating the entirety of what already exists--and this isn't even directly about heritage; rather, I'd view it as a necessary prerequisite t/w "getting" heritage, and indeed, preemptively looking beyond the NIMBYs-and-schoolmarms stereotype. It's sexier that way--though maybe not if you're inclined t/w Heavy-Metal-chick or Tom-Of-Finland-dude idealism in your preferred definition of "sexy"; if so, that's your problem.

And maybe it's in the blood, esp. if some of the younger UTers are the offspring of building/development/whatever types who were driven to a This Ain't The Rosedale Library-esque brink of financial/psychic despair thanks to having to deal with hostile preservationists and NIMBYs...


^ Verbal diarrhea
 
Well, I asked him to not "answer with a curt "amazing how ignorant and pompous" type of response"; and look at how he responded. With an even curter response. Which strikes me as rather thuggishly adolescent and abusive. It's like a girlfriend being grunted at after she tries to get into "relationship talk" with her SO.

With enemies like that, heritage (or healthy urbanism in general) doesn't need friends.

But just in case, I'll re-offer the fundamental question, and await the response...

Okay, AGCO, now that I've slurred you above, may I ask, without slurring--what is heritage to you, and what is your impression of, well, "the state of heritage" out there? And what would you do to, er, "reform it"? And maybe get a bit autobiographical, psychological, in your answering, so we can know what makes you tick.

Oh, and perhaps, if you will, fight fire with fire, fight verbal diarrhea with verbal diarrhea, rather than merely "pointing it out". In any event, think of it like a university assignment. If you don't provide an adequate answer, you fail. Simple.
 
I'm just glad that this family's nightmare ordeal is finally over. I can't recall a time when the power of the individual was relatively lower, or the power of the state (in the western so-called democracies) was relatively higher. Surely this cannot be a runaway train, momentum will begin to shift towards individual liberty again. The statists will over-use their advantage and their real agenda will become apparent to more people.

The rights of property belongs to the taxpaying homeowners, not City-mandated bylaws and bulwarks.
 
The rights of property belongs to the taxpaying homeowners, not City-mandated bylaws and bulwarks.

Then may they accept the responsibilities of respect heritage and the built-form! May they exercise their rights mindful of the merits of the neighbourhoods those properties are located in. Paying taxes is not a way of avoiding responsibilities. No bylaw forced these people to buy an attractive old house. They were free to find a property where there was no responsibility (privilege, more accurately) to preserve.
 
No bylaw forced these people to buy an attractive old house.

They didn't buy an attractive house.

They were free to find a property where there was no responsibility (privilege, more accurately) to preserve.

Which is exactly what they did. They did their due diligence....it wasn't until the jealous neighbor found out that that it started to go bad.
You can't keep ignoring the fact that no-one in that neighborhood wanted any sort of heritage designation, no one had a problem when the previous owners tried to sell to a developer to build town houses either.
 
I'm just glad that this family's nightmare ordeal is finally over. I can't recall a time when the power of the individual was relatively lower, or the power of the state (in the western so-called democracies) was relatively higher. Surely this cannot be a runaway train, momentum will begin to shift towards individual liberty again. The statists will over-use their advantage and their real agenda will become apparent to more people.

The rights of property belongs to the taxpaying homeowners, not City-mandated bylaws and bulwarks.

Yeah, but look who's talking.
 
They didn't buy an attractive house.

Explain.

And, to repeat: answer this...

Okay, AGCO, now that I've slurred you above, may I ask, without slurring--what is heritage to you, and what is your impression of, well, "the state of heritage" out there? And what would you do to, er, "reform it"? And maybe get a bit autobiographical, psychological, in your answering, so we can know what makes you tick.

Which is exactly what they did. They did their due diligence....it wasn't until the jealous neighbor found out that that it started to go bad.
You can't keep ignoring the fact that no-one in that neighborhood wanted any sort of heritage designation, no one had a problem when the previous owners tried to sell to a developer to build town houses either.

Except that sometimes...do the neighbours know best, esp. when they haven't a clear idea of what "heritage" can broadly, constructively involve other than hack, misleading boilerplate about it being a damper on property value and an undesirable imposition on homeowner's rights? Look--it needn't even impede "contemporary" design a la this proposal.

In fact, what you're saying about "no-one in that neighborhood wanted any sort of heritage designation" is itself false, given that an HCD had already been proposed here several years ago--surely, that would have come "from within", it wasn't a mere outside imposition. It's just that, rightly or wrongly, the "anti" side won that battle. "No-one" implies unanimity--almost certainly, there was "some-one", maybe a significant some-one if they were able to get a proposal beyond the flaky idle-talk stage.

But it's more complicated than "the majority have spoken"--in which case, you might as well write off the bulk of Toronto's existing Inventory as non-constitutional, and set the heritage cause back several decades.

So, to repeat, once again...

Okay, AGCO, now that I've slurred you above, may I ask, without slurring--what is heritage to you, and what is your impression of, well, "the state of heritage" out there? And what would you do to, er, "reform it"? And maybe get a bit autobiographical, psychological, in your answering, so we can know what makes you tick.

And, quit your stonewalling. Think of me as a spouse or SO trying to get to the nub of a troubled relationship; in which case, answering with crude grunts and sneers a la "verbal diarrhea" or "They didn't buy an attractive house" is counter-productive.
 
Last edited:
Well, I think an interesting comparison point (esp. since as a "heritage issue", it's closer to the psychic epicentre of a lot of UTers) is the 596 Church redevelopment situation--I mean, one could legitimately argue that there's as much of a "no-one" concerned about the threatened properties there, as there is about 204 Beech. (Like to hear AGCO's view on that...)
 
They did their due diligence....it wasn't until the jealous neighbor found out that that it started to go bad.
You can't keep ignoring the fact that no-one in that neighborhood wanted any sort of heritage designation, no one had a problem when the previous owners tried to sell to a developer to build town houses either.

The house is of a style that isn't exactly common in Toronto, though other houses are similar in the neighbourhood. It is attractive; its tower is a nice feature that's well proportioned with modest ornamentation appropriate for the scale of the house. Anyone buying that should have noticed it.

Anyway, it's interesting that you note the lack of involvement of the community. So they came to their senses late, they're fighting for appropriate heritage preservation. That's positive. Maybe they suspected the townhouse plans would fall through. They might have been lazy and amateurish, but did the right thing. Even if they didn't, it's our city. Anyone could fight to save the house.
 
And likewise with 596 Church; if nobody came forward on behalf of the threatened properties before, it isn't because they were thought to be non-heritage or dispensable garbage--it's because their continued existence was taken for granted. And, really--getting a heritage listing, let alone designation, in place (or convincing others to do so) takes bureaucratic elbow grease which can be daunting or at least "postponeable" for many; so to fall back on good faith in enduring urban decorum and the status quo is an understandable reflex. But as we know now, it's far from a "nobody was/is interested" circumstance, unless you want to dismiss the crowd rallying on behalf of that particular block on Church as marginal trivia irrelevant to 99 44/100% of the population.

And I'm not even that radically on-side re the 596 Church issue. Just acknowledging that, well...sometimes, that's how heritage awareness and rallies come about. Whether one feels it's merited or not, the mere fact of the protest is legit, and worthy of praise. In any event, it forces us to "see" what we long took for granted.
 
OT

Futher example of the air of entitlement that exists in the Beech.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/835079--rental-property-splits-neighbours?bn=1

Rental property splits neighbours
July 12, 2010

Jennifer Yang


On Hazel Ave., a leafy and secluded street in the Beach, two beautifully renovated homes are divided by a roughly constructed fence.

The wooden barrier demarcates the line between 8 and 10 Hazel Ave. But the two men who occupy these properties are also divided by a growing feud in which one dreads his own home and the other is taking his fight to City Hall.

The builder of the fence is William deSousa, a 40-year-old chef who works from 8 Hazel Ave., the home he shares with his wife and two young children. Next door is 48-year-old Stuart Defreitas, who spent $400,000 transforming his home into a three-storey “dream house,†one he no longer feels comfortable in.

“I would love to enjoy my house but I absolutely do not enjoy it,†Defreitas said. “I’m harassed to the point where I don’t want to live in my house.â€

Defreitas said his neighbour is constantly scrutinizing him and reporting every perceived bylaw infraction to the city. But deSousa says he has been forced to police his neighbour because he is the one feeling harassed — not by Defreitas directly but by the presence of the many people who rent out his five-bedroom home.

Since last summer, Defreitas has been renting his home as a short-term vacation stay, charging $1,900 to $3,000 for a week’s stay “in one of the most beautiful and prestigious neighbourhoods in the city.†Defreitas’ home is listed on a website catering to vacationers who prefer houses over hotel rooms.

There is no law prohibiting homeowners from renting out their properties on a short-term basis and Defreitas says he is doing nothing wrong — simply making the most of his expansive home while earning a bit of extra cash.

But deSousa contends his neighbour’s house has become a “turn-key operation,†attracting “all sorts of transients†that bring traffic and noise to their quiet, family-oriented neighbourhood.

“What happens if my kids are in some way or another assaulted by someone who lives next door?†deSousa asks, adding he has reached a point of “desperation.â€

“We are policing what is going on next door. We don’t want to be living next to that.â€

He claims others share his complaints and earlier this year, deSousa hammered a sign into his front lawn urging neighbours to “save the community.â€

DeSousa is also urging City Hall to craft a bylaw to crack down on short-term vacation rentals, and has the support of Councilor Sandra Bussin.

Bussin said her staff is seeking a solution but she is also considering proposing a bylaw change to regulate the rentals, which she acknowledges would be controversial.

“A lot of owners of properties could object to this . . . because of a loss of rights to how they manage their property.â€

But Defreitas feels he is being targeted by deSousa. He says his complaints against his neighbour are often inflated, such as when deSousa complained of volleyball teams arriving by the busload. Defreitas says he’s never rented his home to any volleyball teams but did once rent to a family whose son played the sport, and he may have been picked up by a school bus.

Defreitas feels scrutinized in his own home and says deSousa is constantly photographing his property or the people who stay there.

DeSousa also files numerous complaints against Defreitas for everything from installing a granite driveway to living in his basement. Once, he says, a building inspector showed up at his home after deSousa reported his balcony railing was half an inch too low.

Defreitas said his tenants tend to be affluent and respectful people, selected only after thorough background and reference checks. He is fed up with having to defend what he considers his inherent right to rent out his own home.

“I’m just at my wit’s end with it,†he said. “I don’t think I’m being disruptive in any way. I just think he has it out for me.â€

Sympathies are split among the other residents of Hazel Ave. Some weren’t even aware of Desfreitas’ rental situation until deSousa began his campaign.

Joan Reed-Olson, who lives on the other side of Defreitas, said she has no problem with short-term rentals and simply wishes her neighbours could see eye to eye.

“It’s a beautiful house and I’m happy that people get to experience it,†she said. “I can’t understand this (dispute) . . . it just makes me sad.â€
 

Back
Top