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2022 43rd Ontario general election (June 2, 2022)

Northern Light said:
Gah, the worst of political ideas (almost) the Tax Credit.

If something is a very important public safety issue, legislate it.

If its 'nice to have' but an option based on personal preference, leave it alone,

Do not hand out relatively insignificant sums of money, that will be largely accessed by people who don't need it, for doing something they were going to do anyway.

Even before considering the cost of yet one more line on a tax return, one more piece of data-entry etc.......its simply not justifiable.

Its clutter and electioneering masquerading as public policy.
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Since 2015...

Drivers with Winter Tires Eligible for Insurance Discount​

Ontario Promoting Safe Driving and Helping Drivers Save on Auto Insurance

See link.
 
I hate boutique tax credits. I might have mentioned this before on the forum but my dad was an accountant and a keeper of records (and a bit of a packrat). When we were cleaning out his place after he passed, we found tax returns back to the late '40s. I kept the one from the year of my birth just for kicks - the entire return, including tax tables, was four pages.

Do they really think this will change the minds of drivers?
 
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Ontario Liberals promise rebates for electric vehicle purchases​

From link.

The Ontario Liberals hope to recharge their political fortunes by reviving the electric vehicle subsidies scrapped by Premier Doug Ford’s Progressive Conservatives.

Liberal Leader Steven Del Duca, who drives a Chevrolet Volt, said if his party topples Ford in the June 2 election, consumers would receive provincial rebates of up to $8,000 on electric cars and $1,500 for installing charging gear.

That’s atop the current federal rebates of up to $5,000 per car or truck.

Del Duca said Tuesday it would be “a win-win for Ontario families.”

That’s because a buyer of an eligible vehicle would receive as much as $13,000 in subsidies. (Some 91 models ranging in price up to $60,000 would qualify, but top of the line Teslas, Porsches and Jaguars would not.)

Ottawa introduced its program after Ford’s Tories cancelled the rebates introduced by Ontario’s previous Liberal government.

While the premier, who is now pushing electric vehicle production, suggested last week he might be open to reinstating some rebates, Environment Minister David Piccini said the previous provincial incentives mostly benefited the “affluent, predominantly in the GTHA.”

In contrast, Piccini said the Tories want battery manufacturers to come to the province with “a critical mineral strategy” that would attract mining investment.

“What we’ve seen the premier do is create the conditions for EV investment (by automakers) — $6 billion. I mean the fact speaks for itself,” he said.

The minister added that between the second quarter of 2020 and this year, there was “a 210 per cent increase in the number of Ontarians purchasing electric vehicles.”

NDP MPP Gurratan Singh (Brampton East) said the New Democrats would do even more to woo consumers to electric vehicles.
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“If the NDP was in government, we’d ensure that Ontario is a leader in the world with electric vehicles,” said Singh, whose party has pledged $600 per household to installing a charging station.

While the NDP’s environmental platform promises “strong incentives” for Ontarians who purchase zero-emission vehicles, “with a particular focus on those made in Canada” and excluding luxury models, specific rebates are not spelled out.

Green Leader Mike Schreiner, who also drives a Volt, says a Green government would offer a “feebate” scheme that would have a means-tested incentive for people who buy, lease or rent electric vehicles and e-bikes.
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W. K. Lis said:

Ontario Liberals promise rebates for electric vehicle purchases​

From link.
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I firmly oppose this.

I'm pro-electric vehicle, but we're already moving to near universal adoption of this tech.

This tax credit will not serve to materially accelerate that.

What it will do, is transfer government money to people sufficiently well off they can afford to buy a new car to tune of up to $9,500, on top of the $5,000 they already get from the Federal government.

This is nothing short of pillaging the treasury to benefit the upper middle class and the affluent. (ie someone like a typical UT member).

We don't need the money; put it into transit, put it into higher social assistance payments, transfers to the low-income elderly, or the severely disabled.
 
Northern Light said:
I firmly oppose this.

I'm pro-electric vehicle, but we're already moving to near universal adoption of this tech.

This tax credit will not serve to materially accelerate that.

What it will do, is transfer government money to people sufficiently well off they can afford to buy a new car to tune of up to $9,500, on top of the $5,000 they already get from the Federal government.

This is nothing short of pillaging the treasury to benefit the upper middle class and the affluent. (ie someone like a typical UT member).

We don't need the money; put it into transit, put it into higher social assistance payments, transfers to the low-income elderly, or the severely disabled.
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I think it should be a 15,000 rebate the reason it will lower the cost so people can afford them.
 
jayme2016 said:
I think it should be a 15,000 rebate the reason it will lower the cost so people can afford them.
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Electric cars are $45,000, at least. A $30,000 car is still too expense for the lowest incomd people, whose transport needs we really should support the most.
 
afransen said:
Electric cars (particularly Tesla) are already selling faster than they can be made. Incentives to buy them won't accelerate adoption. I say spend the money on transit! Or worst case, EV charging infrastructure.
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For Eastern Ontario alone you would need 5 billion plus to make sure every town and city had good transit.
 
jayme2016 said:
For Eastern Ontario alone you would need 5 billion plus to make sure every town and city had good transit.
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And buying everyone an EV and building road capacity would be cheaper? And better for the environment?
 
jayme2016 said:
For low income people bring it down even more.
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So you oppose this tax credit idea, in its current form, because you want to see it income-limited?

ie., you can get the credit, but only if you make under .....to pick a number, $45,000 per year?

On a social justice level, that's interesting................

But vastly more complex to administer.

Also, I doubt the credit is sufficient for the income group in question.
 
Eliminating the government rebates for purchasing a personal electric vehicle was one of the few things that I agreed with Ford on so far.

For one thing, it’s a tax subsidy for purchasing a personal vehicle, especially those that are more expensive than basic ICE models like Civics, Cruzes, or Corollas. Anyone living in a multiunit development will have more difficulty getting charging capability than anyone with their own freehold house. So it is unfair towards wealthier, homeowning households.

Though electric vehicles eliminate at-source tailpipe emissions, they still have a lot of embedded carbon due to assembly and the lithium battery. They are better for the environment, but there are better ways to spend that money. Plus you still have to spend on road maintenance and expansion, which itself is very carbon intensive.

I’d rather see programs meant to make it cheaper and easier to get charging equipment installed in municipal lots, GO lots and garages, and in multiunit residential garages and lots rather than direct consumer tax breaks. Build the infrastructure instead.

Living in an older apartment building, and needing a vehicle to visit family in the 905 and Northern Ontario and for the occasional work site visit, my spouse and I choose a ICE Corolla. The fuel economy is great. If we had charging on site or close by, I would have considered electric. But it’s not a possibility for us.
 
Policies need to evolve with the times. At the time that Ontario had an EV rebate, it was sort of necessary to kickstart adoption. Today, not so much.

Ontario is massively behind on infrastructure for EVs. Public spending on making it possible to charge in condos and apartment would grow the addressable market, and demand from EVs, more than the subsidies. Next, common fast charging lots for taxis, rideshare drivers and municipal vehicles, would help a significant chunk of fleet mileage electrify much quicker.

If there is to be an EV credit, it needs to come with a phase-out plan. Battery development and prices are already trending to purchase price parity. With higher price segments expected to see parity by 2025 and lower price segments expected to see parity in 2028. One of the complaints with the federal rebate was that the base price threshold was set low enough to be almost useless. But the rebate scheme doesn't acknowledge how quickly BEVs are developing and coming down in price. They should have set the base threshold at a max of $50k, with an optioned price max of $70k. The $5000 rebates should also have come with a drawdown, where the rebate is reduced by $500 each year, till it hits zero. If a provincial rebate is introduced, it shouldn't be more than $5k and should be drawn down at $1k per year to match the reality of where the market is heading.

I hope the policies are not about preventing the decimation of Ontario"s auto sector, from the impact of American EV rebates and Buy American policies. That would be dumb. There's better ways to achieve that goal. Handing out a few rebate cheques, really won't stop the auto sector from leaving Ontario if the US restricts the post-2026 rebates to only EVs made in the US.
 

Ontario NDP announces commitment to raise minimum wage if elected​

From link.
Ontario’s NDP party is ramping up its campaigning ahead of the 2022 election with a minimum wage announcement.

The party’s leader, Andrea Horwath, has committed to raising minimum wage to $20 per hour in her first term if elected premier.

“Whether you are stocking grocery store shelves or cleaning a hospital, you deserve respect. All workers deserve respect. Respect is not just saying thank you and calling someone a hero. Respect means paying people a wage that pays the bills,” Horwath said in a statement.
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The statement said that if elected, the NDP would steadily increase minimum wage throughout Horwath’s term. The $20 minimum wage would be reached by May 2026.

The Ontario Federation of Labour applauded the announcement.

“A clear and concrete path to a $20 minimum wage is a critical measure to help people keep up with rising costs and raise the floor for all workers. Too many working people are struggling to make ends meet. From the rising cost of groceries to housing, to child care – too many workers just can’t keep up, let alone think about saving for the future,” Ontario Federation of Labour President Patty Coates said in a statement.

In the statement, the Ontario Federation of Labour added that they endorse the commitment from Horwath.

“Today’s announcement shows Ontario workers that we can win a $20 minimum wage and decent work in this province,” said Coates. “We will keep fighting until we make it a reality.”
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Here is a look at the Ontario NDP’s and Horwath’s wage increase schedule:
  • $16 on October 1, 2022
  • $17 on May 1, 2023
  • $18 on May 1, 2024
  • $19 on May 1, 2025
  • $20 on May 1, 2026

If he could, Doug Ford would love to reverse the "Act to Prevent the further Introduction of Slaves and to limit the Term of Contracts for Servitude" from 1793. Too bad, it was superseded in August 28, 1833, by the "Act for the Abolition of Slavery throughout the British Colonies", which received royal assent and became law throughout the British Empire. That Act came into force on August 1, 1834.
 
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