2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

[Neutrino]

@nfitz With all your cheery little comments lately followed by cute little exclamation points are facetious. Like I said, Ford Derangement Syndrome is real. Your comment about my mentioning god reflects that perfectly. You know exactly what I mean. You just choose to be coy. Grow up.

 

[BurlOak]

Not sure how god being good or not is relevant to your point! No, gender in-parity does not mean that an organization is bigoted beyond belief. The converse however remains a possibility!

These were all basically talked about 4 years ago and nothing started. I would be happy if 1 started construction.

 

[Hopkins123]

@nfitz Good god man, get a grip. Just because society's organizations don't exactly mirror the racial and gender composition of the society does not mean the organization is somehow bigoted beyond belief. On the contrary, quotas and artificial balancing make things worse for everyone. Maybe we should also account for all the other 57 genders our literati tell us are out there? I see T̶r̶u̶m̶p̶ Ford Derangement Syndrome is real.

It's derangment indeed. Bigotry and hatred of the other has been around since the dawn of civilization and is common to all parties - Tories Liberals and NDPers alike, not just the right wing ones; yet only conservatives it seems are blamed for all of society's ills.

It's way too premature to state for certain what Doug Ford won't and will do but complaining that because only one third of his cabinet is comprised of women ergo he's sexist is stretching things beyond reason.

 

[nfitz]

Good news for transit users. Here's a report that twinning Highway 17 in Renfrew is a key focus on the new Transport minister!

To put in context, Highway 17, approaching Highway 41 outside of Pembroke, has an AADT of 6,800. Compare to Highway 6 from 401 south to Puslinch, that is only 2-lanes, and needs widening - if not twinning, is 25,900. Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener is finally being replaced by a twinned highway, and the AADT on that is from 18,500 to 20,300.

Not to say, that 17 shouldn't slowly and eventually continue be replaced by 417 further west (as the Liberals and their predecessors have been doing for years) - but the lack of perspective on supposedly progressive Conservatives is troubling, and very reminiscent of Mike Harris's desire to build lots of expressways to the north, rather than focusing on providing them where demand is highest.

http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/2018...ki-sworn-in-as-the-minister-of-transportation

 

[White Pine]

The section being twinned in this case would be Arnprior-Renfrew. There have been quite a few (fatal) accidents on this highway and the political pressure mounts every time it happens. Not saying that people don't die on other highways. A lot of county leaders want the highway twinned all the way to Chalk River and beyond, but personally I don't see a great case past pembroke, unless they're trying to eliminate the mammoth truck detour through Algonquin Park that pops up every time there's an accident west of Petawawa.

EDIT: The AADT numbers for the next section being twinned ate around 14,000

 

[BurlOak]

Good news for transit users. Here's a report that twinning Highway 17 in Renfrew is a key focus on the new Transport minister!

To put in context, Highway 17, approaching Highway 41 outside of Pembroke, has an AADT of 6,800. Compare to Highway 6 from 401 south to Puslinch, that is only 2-lanes, and needs widening - if not twinning, is 25,900. Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener is finally being replaced by a twinned highway, and the AADT on that is from 18,500 to 20,300.

Not to say, that 17 shouldn't slowly and eventually continue be replaced by 417 further west (as the Liberals and their predecessors have been doing for years) - but the lack of perspective on supposedly progressive Conservatives is troubling, and very reminiscent of Mike Harris's desire to build lots of expressways to the north, rather than focusing on providing them where demand is highest.

http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/2018...ki-sworn-in-as-the-minister-of-transportation

The article only mentions extending the highway to Renfrew - which is highway 60.
Although the riding name is Pembroke, that is not mentioned in the article as to where the highway would go.
FYI - the AADT at highway 60 is 13,900, and it's an 18km extension.
From the MTO tables, the AADT seems to drop off just north of there at County Road 4 - where it drops from 12,300 to 9,300 - but that involves building the Bonnechere crossing.

 

[nfitz]

Although the riding name is Pembroke, that is not mentioned in the article as to where the highway would go.

Not sure what the riding name has to do with anything! The article was in a Pembroke newspaper, and referred to "here". The long-existing plan under the Liberals has been to twin it to Pembroke, rather than a cheaper widening.

As I pointed out, the twinning currently underway under the Liberals should be slowly continued. Though there are other 2-lane provincial highways that are far more overdue for widening or twinning!

I'm not sure why twinning seems to be necessary here rather than just widening, which is all the AADT suggests may eventually be necessary, but that's what MTO under both the Liberals and Conservatives have been working for, for years, all the way to Pembroke.

 

[BurlOak]

To put in context, Highway 17, approaching Highway 41 outside of Pembroke, has an AADT of 6,800. Compare to Highway 6 from 401 south to Puslinch, that is only 2-lanes, and needs widening - if not twinning, is 25,900. Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener is finally being replaced by a twinned highway, and the AADT on that is from 18,500 to 20,300.

As you said, highway 7 is already commtted, and I have seen plans for the Morriston by-pass on highway 6. I thought it was already approved too?

Not sure if the Hanlon conversion to freeway will be slowed, because likely the local MPP would not be easy to satisfy.

 

[Randomguy]

Not sure what the riding name has to do with anything! The article was in a Pembroke newspaper, and referred to "here". The long-existing plan under the Liberals has been to twin it to Pembroke, rather than a cheaper widening.

As I pointed out, the twinning currently underway under the Liberals should be slowly continued. Though there are other 2-lane provincial highways that are far more overdue for widening or twinning!

I'm not sure why twinning seems to be necessary here rather than just widening, which is all the AADT suggests may eventually be necessary, but that's what MTO under both the Liberals and Conservatives have been working for, for years, all the way to Pembroke.

The article is quoting him from during the election, advocating for an improvement in his riding for a better link to the major urban center in the region (Ottawa). I would be surprised if all candidates in this riding would have had a different position (including the Liberal).

 

[lenaitch]

Not sure what the riding name has to do with anything! The article was in a Pembroke newspaper, and referred to "here". The long-existing plan under the Liberals has been to twin it to Pembroke, rather than a cheaper widening.

As I pointed out, the twinning currently underway under the Liberals should be slowly continued. Though there are other 2-lane provincial highways that are far more overdue for widening or twinning!

I'm not sure why twinning seems to be necessary here rather than just widening, which is all the AADT suggests may eventually be necessary, but that's what MTO under both the Liberals and Conservatives have been working for, for years, all the way to Pembroke.

Twining seems to be the MTO standard except where restricted by adjacent land ownership (expropriation is always an option but can become prohibitively expensive where the ROW is lined by private ownership). Widening without a centre barrier doesn't eliminate head-on conflicts - but does allow for at-grade intersections - and widening with a centre barrier can complicate snow removal in heavy areas,creates a very wide barrier for wildlife and mandates grade separation. In many cases with rural highways, the ROW bisects towns and villages which can be problematic without a realignment.

 

[BurlOak]

Twining seems to be the MTO standard except where restricted by adjacent land ownership (expropriation is always an option but can become prohibitively expensive where the ROW is lined by private ownership). Widening without a centre barrier doesn't eliminate head-on conflicts - but does allow for at-grade intersections - and widening with a centre barrier can complicate snow removal in heavy areas,creates a very wide barrier for wildlife and mandates grade separation. In many cases with rural highways, the ROW bisects towns and villages which can be problematic without a realignment.

MTO standard almost seems to be tripling, not twinning.

Both highway 11 and 69 were mostly very remote, yet often a whole new set of 2 lane highways were built, and the original highway kept as a service road.
Here, it's quite rural with no entrances. I count 7 underpass bridges, 2 railway overpasses, and the major Bonnechere crossing. The Bonnechere looks like about a 300m long bridge - which would likely have a cost of $30M, with each other bridge costing $5M, and highway costing maybe $4M/lane km ($4M x 20 km x 2 lanes = $160M).
Thus, a total of $250M to get you to the north end of Renfrew.

 

[kEiThZ]

The Liberals should have extended the 417 to Renfrew by now. Not doing so was a mistake on their part. And they should have had some kind of plan in place to eventually extend the 417 to North Bay. There is no reason that can't be accomplished over a decade. They really took Eastern Ontario for granted and became far too GTA focused in many respects.

What will also be interesting is to see a little more balance in transit funding between the GTA and other regions. Many in Ottawa have asked why Ottawa couldn't get the same deal as the GTA with transit funding for LRTs. Ottawa was forced to contribute a third of their LRT plans. And cover all overruns. Metrolinx is paying for Eglinton, Finch West and Hurontario.

Having a Minister of Transport from Eastern Ontario should help address some of these concerns.

 

[Kitsune]

The 417 needs to be expanded past North Bay all the way to I-75, and then twin 11 from North Bay to Nipigon.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Interesting, and disappointing, that the Trans-Canada Highway does not reach Toronto.

From link.

The Trans-Canada Highway should be a twin multi-lane highway through Ontario.

From link:

At the (Manitoba-Ontario) provincial border, the numeric designation of the highway changes from 1 to 17, and is signed with a provincial shield along with a numberless TCH sign. In Kenora, the Trans-Canada designation includes both the main route through the city's urban core and the 33.6 km (20.9 mi) Highway 17A bypass route. The existing branch from Kenora continues east for 136 km (85 mi) to Dryden. A second branch extends 157 km (98 mi) southward along Highway 71 from Kenora to Chapple, then 320 km (200 mi) eastward along Highway 11 to Shabaqua Corners, where it reunites with Highway 17.

Highway 11/Highway 17 proceeds southeast for 65 km (40 mi) to Thunder Bay, then northeast for 115 km (71 mi) to Nipigon. An 83-kilometre (52 mi) segment of the Trans-Canada Highway between Thunder Bay and Nipigon is commemorated as the Terry Fox Courage Highway. Fox was forced to abandon his cross-country Marathon of Hope run here, and a bronze statue of him was later erected in his honour. The highway is the only road that connects eastern and western Canada. On January 10, 2016, the Nipigon River Bridge suffered a mechanical failure, closing the Trans-Canada Highway briefly and forcing travellers to go around Lake Superior.

The Trans-Canada Highway designation splits east of Nipigon, and the northern branch follows Highway 11 and the southern branch follows Highway 17. Highway 11 travels a 985 km (612 mi) arc through Northern Ontario, passing through Hearst, Kapuskasing, Cochrane, and Temiskaming Shores before continuing along Highway 17 east from North Bay. A spur branches eastward from Highway 11 near Kirkland Lake, following Highway 66 for 58 km (36 mi) into Quebec, and then Route 117 and Autoroute 15 for 674 km (419 mi) into Montreal.

Highway 17 proceeds east from Nipigon for 581 km (361 mi) along the northern and eastern coast of Lake Superior. Between Wawa and Sault Ste. Marie, the highway crosses the Montreal River Hill, which sometimes becomes a bottleneck on the system in the winter when inclement weather can make the hill's steep grade virtually impassable. At Sault Ste. Marie, the highway turns eastward for 291 km (181 mi) east to Sudbury. The Trans-Canada Highway splits again at the junction of Highways 17 and 69 on Sudbury's Southwest and Southeast Bypasses. The southern route follows Highways 69 and 400 south for 254 km (158 mi) and then Highway 12 for 27 km (17 mi) to Orillia, a further 58 km (36 mi) along the shore of Lake Simcoe, before following Highway 7 east for 70 km (43 mi) to Peterborough. The northern route continues east for 151 km (94 mi) to North Bay, and then 216 km (134 mi) to Pembroke. The two branches converge at Ottawa, 244 km (152 mi) east of Peterborough and 123 km (76 mi) east of Pembroke. In Southern Ontario, the speed limit is generally 80 km/h (50 mph) on the Trans-Canada, while in Northern Ontario it is 90 km/h (56 mph). Sections routed along provincial freeways feature a higher limit of 100 km/h (62 mph).

The Trans-Canada Highway mostly bypasses Canada's most heavily populated region, the Golden Horseshoe area of Southern Ontario, which includes the city of Toronto. However, a small section of the highway does briefly cross into the northeastern edge of Durham Region at both Sunderland and Beaverton, where this region itself is part of the Greater Toronto Area.

 

[TransitBart]

Interesting, and disappointing, that the Trans-Canada Highway does not reach Toronto.

Or Halifax apparently.