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2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

AlvinofDiaspar said:
I don't mean the blowback from council - they couldn't care less about that. But subways is an ongoing, needy thing - and it is old. If it becomes provincial, the failing also becomes provincial - and there is no way they can avoid the increasing level of overcrowdedness on it.

AoD
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True. But for at least the next 4 years, this line works: "We didn't know how bad the Liberals and Toronto Council screwed this thing up. It's worse than you think folks! We're working on it."
 
raptor said:
Well, he was the transportation critic, and seems most knowledgeable on transportation. Obviously it means nothing.
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That struck me mostly as a location of convenience (since Michael Harris retired in April?); it was only a couple months and shuffling the shadow cabinet 2 months before the election to put someone unelected in a good slot would be aggressive even for Ford.
 
kEiThZ said:
True. But for at least the next 4 years, this line works: "We didn't know how bad the Liberals and Toronto Council screwed this thing up. It's worse than you think folks! We're working on it."
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They may try, but I am not sure how convincing it'd be if they drag their feet on DRL while using that as an excuse.

AoD
 
kEiThZ said:
I don't think Ford and his cabinet care what Tory and City Council thinks. The fireworks will start when they decide to expropriate the subway network to Metrolinx.
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That's not the Ford promise.

In fact, he specifically stated that the TTC will retain full operational control and perform all day to day maintenance, and retail all revenues.

What he is uploading is ownership.

The reason for doing is so is simple.

It will then appear as a net asset on the province's books.

That's billions in new assets for no upfront dollars.

It reduces the net debt in the short-term.

It will mean the province will pick up the TTC maintenance bill.

But in the short-term this is workable.

It also, interestingly, frees up room on the City's books for more borrowing.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
They may try, but I am not sure how convincing it'd be if they drag their feet on DRL while using that as an excuse.

AoD
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Ford voters don't care about the DRL.

Northern Light said:
That's not the Ford promise.

In fact, he specifically stated that the TTC will retain full operational control and perform all day to day maintenance, and retail all revenues.
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We'll see what happens. I think there's more at play here than just some balance sheet change.
 
kEiThZ said:
Ford voters don't care about the DRL.
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Yes and no - the ones in the 416 and some in the 905 will be sensitive to it. And it doesn't make good press when you are in government and it blow up in your face after loudly proclaiming this is your area of expertise.

AoD
 
Northern Light said:
It also, interestingly, frees up room on the City's books for more borrowing.
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Only if they don't demand sizable annual capital contributions. The quoted $160M/year isn't enough to maintain the subway, replace old rolling stock/equipment. Suspiciously, $160M/year somewhere between 1/2 to 1/3rd of the cost.

Anyway, if Toronto is making payments of that size then the load on the books doesn't change much. Instead of the province giving the city money for purchasing new rolling stock, it'll be the other way around.

If Ford actually does cover the entire capital program (for subway related items), even if they put nothing into the streetcar/bus program city books Tory would have significant freedom. Might even make headway on non-transportation items like public housing.
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Yes and no - the ones in the 416 and some in the 905 will be sensitive to it. And it doesn't make good press when you are in government and it blow up in your face after loudly proclaiming this is your area of expertise.

AoD
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Sure they care. Not enough to vote for anybody else though. And if he delivers SSE or is close in this term, he can argue that they've shown they can build subways and will start the DRL in his next term. That's my point. It's not that they won't build the DRL. It's just that they don't care to get it done this term.
 
kEiThZ said:
Sure they care. Not enough to vote for anybody else though. And if he delivers SSE or is close in this term, he can argue that they've shown they can build subways and will start the DRL in his next term. That's my point. It's not that they won't build the DRL. It's just that they don't care to get it done this term.
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I highly doubt any party can get DRL started in this term anyways.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
I highly doubt any party can get DRL started in this term anyways.

AoD
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Exactly. So they slow walk it and run on it next election. They don't have to get a shovel in the ground till May 2022. And if they don't their voters won't penalize them substantially. Do you envisions guys like OneCity voting Liberal because Ford didn't start the DRL? And that's actually a person who cares about transit.

I think you (and several others here) are really underestimating what the SSE will do for Ford with his suburban base. Even if it's in Mississauga. It'll be evidence he can deliver as promised. And that's all they need. The talking point after that will be, "The Left talked about the DRL for decades and didn't deliver. Ford will do it next term."

SSE this term. DRL and Yonge North next term. Only LRTs I see are Eglinton East and West. No more, as long as these guys are in power. They will put all their focus on subways and GO.
 
rbt said:
Retired a couple months ago for health reasons.
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I think it was only a few weeks before the campaign started and he was the critic up until then. Not sure who took over from him briefly between when he was kicked out of the PC caucus and when the election started.
 
kEiThZ said:
Exactly. So they slow walk it and run on it next election. They don't have to get a shovel in the ground till May 2022. And if they don't their voters won't penalize them substantially. Do you envisions guys like OneCity voting Liberal because Ford didn't start the DRL? And that's actually a person who cares about transit.

I think you (and several others here) are really underestimating what the SSE will do for Ford with his suburban base. Even if it's in Mississauga. It'll be evidence he can deliver as promised. And that's all they need. The talking point after that will be, "The Left talked about the DRL for decades and didn't deliver. Ford will do it next term."

SSE this term. DRL and Yonge North next term. Only LRTs I see are Eglinton East and West. No more, as long as these guys are in power. They will put all their focus on subways and GO.
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I might be saying something crazy here, but I just want the Scarborough Subway Extension and Sheppard East (and maybe West) Subway Extension(s) to be built as soon as possible so that there would less projects that would get in the way of the priority and necessary projects from being completed (Relief Line Mount Dennis-Don Mills, Regional Express Rail, Yonge North, and Waterfront LRTs). Of course, with these 2(3) projects finished, it might open the door to even more crazy projects that definitely should not be prioritized (Steeles Subway, Kipling Subway, etc).
 
i think the subway upload is more of a ploy to make the city themselves lean more towards subways as opposed to LRT as it would probably bring subways more in line with LRT operating costs
 
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