2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

[christiesplits]

I think a key requirement for the Relief Line to jump the transit priority hierarchy ahead of Smart Track and the Yonge North Extension is for the NDP to gain in the polls in the 416, particularly in the central city. This will force the Liberals and NDP to try outdo each other in hanging goodies in front of voters.

 

[kEiThZ]

Isn't the subway network profitable? It's why I don't think there's an issue if Metrolinx takes over. They'll reinvest further. The city will have to appropriately subsidize feeder bus service.

Also, I think fare-by-distance or zoned fares will only happen when the subway network and the feeder network are separated. The TTC seems to have no interest in it.

 

[WislaHD]

Isn't the subway network profitable? It's why I don't think there's an issue if Metrolinx takes over. They'll reinvest further. The city will have to appropriately subsidize feeder bus service.

Also, I think fare-by-distance or zoned fares will only happen when the subway network and the feeder network are separated. The TTC seems to have no interest in it.

Without the subways as assets, the TTC would need some other source of revenue to support the bus system.

 

[Cobra]

From what I could read from the news this morning, Caroline Mulroney would stick with Patrick Brown's platform (same transit promise). Elliott and Ford doesn't seem like they will.

 

[nfitz]

You really need to ease up with the name-calling.

100% disagree.

This is a political discussion. If the majority in a community are willing to vote for a drug-dealing racist then the description is not name-calling, but an accurate description.

@Juan_Lennon416 Yeah, that's how you get a Ford elected. No desire to look into and try to understand why someone would vote for them. That's not to condone what they do or say, but it's no way to engage with your fellow citizens. Not to mention there is plenty of garbage coming from the left as well, and arguably, that contributed to Ford being elected.

People who support racist are not fellow citizens. They are racists, and require no consideration or engagement.

Rob Ford didn't get elected because I refered to his community as Etobicrack. If you recall, the crack addiction wasn't known - and even I didn't suggest it was a possibility back in the 2010 election. I took enough flack here for pointing out that Rob Ford was a racist with an alcohol addiction and was also a pathological liar during the 2010 election. Perhaps if people had actually looked at the available evidence, and discussed it widely, rather than trying to hide, with their heads in the sand, saying don't say that out loud, you'll just make them vote for him.

It doesn't work like that. By making clear who Doug Ford was in 2014, helped defeat him.

Besides, there is no way he's getting the leadership in a process where each riding gets the same weight. He's considered a joke outside of Scarberia and Etobicrack.

 

[gweed123]

The election of Rob Ford was a direct result of very high-handed language and thinking from the left as @Neutrino points out. Rob Ford spoke in a manner that connected with people. I am not a Ford Nation person. But I absolutely loathed how I felt talked down to by David Miller. He was a smarty pants. He knew it. And he and his confidantes made sure we all knew how smart and capable he was. In fact, he knew better than us if we'd only trust him. Dalton McGuinty reeked of the same to me. Hearing him speak made me cringe.

I agree that condescension can be an unwelcome quality in a politician, but I think a notion that has become far too common, and also dangerous, is voting based on "who I'd rather have a beer with". I don't give a crap if they're sociable over a pint, I care that they're competent enough to run the Country/Province/City. This whole obsession with electing an "Average Joe" is insane. I don't want an average leader, I want an above average one. And yes, smart people do occasionally come off as arrogant when they tell you that your half-baked idea is unworkable and/or downright crazy. I'd take that any day over someone who actually takes that unworkable/crazy idea seriously and tries to run with it.

 

[nfitz]

The election of Rob Ford was a direct result of very high-handed language and thinkilng from the left as @Neutrino points out.

That's just not true. High-handed language?

Rob Ford was elected because the media wouldn't touch the rumours about his drinking problems, racist issues, extreme bigotry, drunk driving, spousal abuse, and predilection for under-age prostitutes. Heck, they STILL won't touch the latter issue, despite the details provided by the police in the arrest warrants. Had there been a full discussion of what was known, in the manner that the #MeToo movement has been doing of late, there's no way a piece of trash like Rob Ford would ever have been elected.

He was also elected because the Toronto Star had done a very effective hatchet job on David Miller for months and years, making look like he needed to go. Very bizarre, given they worst sin apparently was being tough with the unions, not giving them what they wanted, and extracting serious concessions during the 2010 negotiations, that will save money for years - unlike anything that a drugged-up wife-beater like Rob Ford or "come meet my at my white-only country club) Tory have ever done.

Rob Ford spoke in a manner that connected with people. I am not a Ford Nation person. But I absolutely loathed how I felt talked down to by David Miller. He was a smarty pants.

That's absurd. I've never felt talked down to by David Miller. And my gosh, it's not like he also didn't have a reputation for showing up in public under the influence. Except unlike Rob Ford, he'd be taking transit - and talking to people. Rather than driving through streetcar doors trying to kill them.

He knew it. And he and his confidantes made sure we all knew how smart and capable he was. In fact, he knew better than us if we'd only trust him. Dalton McGuinty reeked of the same to me. Hearing him speak made me cringe.

I'm sorry, I don't see your point here. Aren't leaders supposed to be of above average intelligence? Isn't that the whole point?

You think people wanted to vote for Ford, because they felt he was stupider than they were? It seems more to me like you are projecting your personal inferiorities about your own abilities on the entire populace.

 

[ADRM]

Agreed; my point is that supposed apologia for Trump and Ford comes from a place of being fed up with excesses on the left.

That may certainly be true, though I have extremely limited sympathy for anyone who turns to racists and/or demagogues (or both in one!) out of spite for the perceived status quo.

 

[ssiguy2]

This all raises a more fundamental question...............should Doug Ford be held politically responsible for his brother's actions?
Ultimately Doug is responsible for only his own actions and no one else's so is it really even fair to bring up Rob when discussing Doug? Please don't get me wrong, I don't like Doug either but he is not "his brother's keeper".

Let's be honest here. If Albertans strictly cast their vote against Trudeau based on their history with his father the liberal media and left-wing progressives would be all over it so how is lambasting Doug for what his brother did any different?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

This all raises a more fundamental question...............should Doug Ford be held politically responsible for his brother's actions?
Ultimately Doug is responsible for only his own actions and no one else's so is it really even fair to bring up Rob when discussing Doug? Please don't get me wrong, I don't like Doug either but he is not "his brother's keeper".

Let's be honest here. If Albertans strictly cast their vote against Trudeau based on their history with his father the liberal media and left-wing progressives would be all over it so how is lambasting Doug for what his brother did any different?

Yes - considering Doug inserted himself into the mayor's office - plus he was willing holding up the mantle as "I am here to continue Rob's legacy". Last time I checked, the ghost of PET didn't occupy himself in Langevin Block offering advice for the past few years, and JT was fairly eager to distant himself from at least some of his father's policies/policy mistakes.

AoD

 

[ssiguy2]

^ That is a very valid point and it fair to judge Doug on his policies and what he backed Rob on but not on Rob's racist rants, drug addiction, and mental health problems.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

^ That is a very valid point and it fair to judge Doug on his policies and what he backed Rob on but not on Rob's racist rants, drug addiction, and mental health problems.

Ah, this is where I beg to differ - where he stands when his brother is making those racist rants, etc is also fair game for evaluating him as a candidate. He is anything but uninvolved in that process.

Remember this?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...s-apology-from-doug-ford-for-tirade-1.2736448

AoD

 

[ADRM]

Yes - considering Doug inserted himself into the mayor's office - plus he was willing holding up the mantle as "I am here to continue Rob's legacy". Last time I checked, the ghost of PET didn't occupy himself in Langevin Block offering advice for the past few years, and JT was fairly eager to distant himself from at least some of his father's policies/policy mistakes.

AoD

Plus Doug himself has of course been known to verbally threaten people, make racist comments, play fast and loose with facts, etc.

My personal favourite was him calling his late brother "The White Obama", closely followed by this zinger:

"You can be racist against people that eat little red apples, you can be racist against people that have a drinking problem, you can be racist against people that are too fat."

 

[muller877]

Isn't the subway network profitable? It's why I don't think there's an issue if Metrolinx takes over. They'll reinvest further. The city will have to appropriately subsidize feeder bus service.

Also, I think fare-by-distance or zoned fares will only happen when the subway network and the feeder network are separated. The TTC seems to have no interest in it.

High order transit is only profitable with a feeder system. Without it there would be fewer people plus the need for parking lots. If they operated independently the Subway operator would either (1) pay the bus operator for every person it drops off at the station, (2) take a lower % of the co-fare with the bus operator or (3) operate at break-even and all the subsidy from the gov't goes to the bus system.

GO Transit does #1.

London has almost a 100% fare recovery on the Tube. And about 66% on the Bus. They highlight this in their Annual Report. This is option #3

Hong Kong ha a 3rd option. Only build around subway lines and only build a new stop if they own all the land around it (and the other stations have maximized the density).

In Toronto I would assume that the subway is also sitting around 100%. But it all depends on how they allocate various expenses between the various services.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This all raises a more fundamental question...............should Doug Ford be held politically responsible for his brother's actions?
Ultimately Doug is responsible for only his own actions and no one else's so is it really even fair to bring up Rob when discussing Doug? Please don't get me wrong, I don't like Doug either but he is not "his brother's keeper".

Let's be honest here. If Albertans strictly cast their vote against Trudeau based on their history with his father the liberal media and left-wing progressives would be all over it so how is lambasting Doug for what his brother did any different?

Yes. He directly enabled his brother. He was not a passive observer.