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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

To be clear, Canada does have to address the dire situation on the border, not due to any 'illegality', but due to the terms of its *legality*. That means opening an agreement with the US which is like...well...like dealing with a Doug Ford.

The situation being discussed in Northern Ont is nothing to do with that. Which is exactly what Ford doesn't understand. He lacks the capacity, let alone the compassion.

Which sums him up in a label...business.
 
No it doesn't, it isn't, and your sense of awareness is par with Ford's. You'd think the "Government of Canada" on the signs would give a hint, but hey...Perhaps you need a dictionary as to what "sponsor" means?

spon·sor
ˈspänsər/
noun
  1. 1.
    a person or organization that provides funds for a project or activity carried out by another, in particular.
  2. 2.
    a person who introduces and supports a proposal for legislation.
    "a leading sponsor of the bill"
verb
  1. 1.
    provide funds for (a project or activity or the person carrying it out).
    "Joe is being sponsored by his church"
    synonyms: finance, put up the money for, fund, subsidize, back, promote, support, contribute to, be a patron of, guarantee, underwrite; More
  2. 2.
    introduce and support (a proposal) in a legislative assembly.
    "Senator Hardin sponsored the bill"
Immigration is the *sole* competence of the Federal Government, and "Asylum" is distinct from "Immigration". Both, however, are the sole jurisdiction of the Feds.

Not that some do now, or ever will know the difference. Or care...

Jesse Beatson and Kylie Sier, Osgoode Hall Law School

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...res-nothing-illegal-about-asylum-seekers.html
The Federal government put the word "ILLEGAL" on the sign.
 
Ford hasn’t defined what his “take care of our own” statement actually means. However, we can infer it means something like all levels of government in Canada should distinguish between Canadian citizens and non-citizens, and should privilege the welfare and interests of the former over the latter. That would be uncontroversial in a normal country, though for Canadian bien-pensants it’s apparently on par with Hitler’s Nuremberg address.
 
No it doesn't, it isn't, and your sense of awareness is par with Ford's. You'd think the "Government of Canada" on the signs would give a hint, but hey...Perhaps you need a dictionary as to what "sponsor" means?

spon·sor
ˈspänsər/
noun
  1. 1.
    a person or organization that provides funds for a project or activity carried out by another, in particular.
  2. 2.
    a person who introduces and supports a proposal for legislation.
    "a leading sponsor of the bill"
verb
  1. 1.
    provide funds for (a project or activity or the person carrying it out).
    "Joe is being sponsored by his church"
    synonyms: finance, put up the money for, fund, subsidize, back, promote, support, contribute to, be a patron of, guarantee, underwrite; More
  2. 2.
    introduce and support (a proposal) in a legislative assembly.
    "Senator Hardin sponsored the bill"
Immigration is the *sole* competence of the Federal Government, and "Asylum" is distinct from "Immigration". Both, however, are the sole jurisdiction of the Feds.

Not that some do now, or ever will know the difference. Or care...

Jesse Beatson and Kylie Sier, Osgoode Hall Law School

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...res-nothing-illegal-about-asylum-seekers.html
Look at the link. Why would the Federal government have discussions with Ontario Immigration Minister if is it a 100% federal issue?
 
Ford hasn’t defined what his “take care of our own” statement actually means. However, we can infer it means something like all levels of government in Canada should distinguish between Canadian citizens and non-citizens, and should privilege the welfare and interests of the former over the latter. That would be uncontroversial in a normal country, though for Canadian bien-pensants it’s apparently on par with Hitler’s Nuremberg address.

The question being answered was in regards to the need for more legal immigrants in Northern Ontario, a place that is increasingly short of qualified professionals to fill jobs.

It had nothing to do w/random non-citizens from around the world, or illegal (or otherwise) border crossers.

You know better! Shame on you for not demonstrating your competency at reading and comprehension.
 
Ford hasn’t defined what his “take care of our own” statement actually means. However, we can infer it means something like all levels of government in Canada should distinguish between Canadian citizens and non-citizens, and should privilege the welfare and interests of the former over the latter. That would be uncontroversial in a normal country, though for Canadian bien-pensants it’s apparently on par with Hitler’s Nuremberg address.

The context of that within the debate, which is about the northern immigration programme, is very clear. No one is arguing against privileges citizenship offers - and indeed our policies already do that. In question is about attracting immigrants to provide professionals that oddly enough, few Canadians wanted to fill in the North even with incentives. Just what does "take care of our own" meant in that context, do you think?

The demographics of Northern Ontario is not in the greatest of shape - and Canada has a long history of economic development through immigration (settlement of Northern Ontario and the West, for one). Appeal to fear or purity does disservice to the future. Discomfort or not - change, or decline even more than it already has.

AoD
 
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Why must people deflect?

Look, Doug Ford is not 'evil cause he's evil'. Nor was the statement made absolutely racist/xenophobic.

However, it has the appearance of being so.

The most charitable interpretation would be, let's make sure we're not filling jobs w/non-citizens who are only brought in by large businesses because they are cheap labour.

That would be a reasonable statement, it arguably represents the best interests of the would-be workers and the current local population.

But one can, and must, judge Doug Ford against his record. One must consider previous statements, natural inclinations, political leanings and the views of his base.

One must also ask, if this was truly an 'innocent' statement.......how could he not be aware it might be seen otherwise?

That would make him either incredibly naive or unquestionable stupid.

Either of which disqualify him from seeking the job he is applying for; though not as much as the open bigotry people, I think rightly, suspect was at the heart of that statement.
 
The Federal government put the word "ILLEGAL" on the sign.
Look at the link. Why would the Federal government have discussions with Ontario Immigration Minister if is it a 100% federal issue?
The sign is in fact, incorrect. A number of illegalities have been committed by Border Services and the RCMP, and perhaps a couple of *true* illegals have been detained for deportation. Border Services and the RCMP have corrected their procedures to conform with the Law.

The truth is out there if you'd care to read, but alas, Ford doesn't either. He just inherits money. And since you want to play the word game, at no time has anyone in Northern Ontario stated "refugees" in this context. Only you and your ilk have. The word used, time and again, is "immigrants". Stop trying to change the channel. (See http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-20.html )
[...]
“To be clear, asylum seekers crossing at unofficial border crossing are making irregular crossings, not illegal crossings,” Kwan said. “Crossing the border at a point not designated as a port of entry is not an offence under the Criminal Code.”

The Vancouver East MP cited Section 133 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IPRA) to prove her point.

The particular section of the said law states, “A person who has claimed refugee protection, and who came to Canada directly or indirectly from the country in respect of which the claim is made, may not be charged with an offence under… this Act or under… the Criminal Code, in relation to the coming into Canada of the person, pending disposition of their claim for refugee protection or if refugee protection is conferred.”

Kwan also cited another provision that states that “a person who seeks to enter Canada at a place other than a port of entry must appear without delay for examination at the port of entry that is nearest to that place”.

(Kwan’s office later clarified in response to an enquiry from the Georgia Straight that the last reference pertains to the immigration and refugee protection regulations, not IPRA.)

Rempel said that the crossings are plain illegal.

“We are arguing semantics over the fact that people are illegally entering our country instead of coming up with a plan to encourage orderly, planned migration,” Rempel said. “Why do members of the NDP want to do this? It is because they, with the Liberals, do not want to see a plan in place to encourage people to enter the country through planned, orderly migration.”

Kwan explained what happens after an irregular border crossing.

“Just so everyone is clear on the process, after crossing irregularly, individuals are taken into custody. They are questioned, and their identity is checked. Once cleared by the RCMP, they are handed over to the CBSA for processing. They are interviewed about their personal history and how they got to Canada. They are fingerprinted, photographed, and asked to fill out paperwork. A background check is done.

“If the person is deemed admissible, their case is transferred to the IRB [Immigration and Refugee Board] to adjudicate their refugee claim. No one is jumping the queue, and individuals found not to have met what is prescribed to be a refugee under Canadian law, his or her claim would be rejected by the IRB. That is how the system works and how it should work,” she said.

In short, according to Kwan, “These asylum seekers are following Canadian law.”

Rempel's motion was defeated.
https://www.straight.com/news/10660...s-us-not-illegal-says-vancouver-mp-jenny-kwan

The Cons are welcome to apply for a test case in court on the matter. {{...sound of crickets chirping...}}

Why would the Federal government have discussions with Ontario Immigration Minister if is it a 100% federal issue?
Does the definition of "sponsor" I posted have too many letters in it?

Ministry of Citizenship and Immigration
Provides services to help integrate newcomers and refugees, supports not-for-profit community organizations and promotes greater social inclusion, community engagement and recognition among all Ontarians.

The federal government and Ontario have signed the second Canada-Ontario Immigration Agreement, which guides the relationship on immigration for the next five years.
[...]
What we do
  • fund programs and services that help immigrants settle, find a job in their field, improve their English or French and prosper in Ontario
  • work with the federal government to get permanent residence for skilled immigrants nominated by Ontario to help grow its economy
  • provide information and resources to help immigrants get their foreign credentials and experience recognized and enable them to work in regulated professions and skilled trades
  • fund community services to support the successful resettlement of refugees in Ontario
  • fund organizations that help Ontarians privately sponsor refugees
  • support our commitment of 5% Francophone immigration outlined in our Immigration Strategy
  • support volunteerism and the not-for-profit sector in the effort to improve services at the community level and ensure better quality of life for all Ontarians
  • celebrate civic life and contributions made by Ontarians through honours and awards
  • commemorate the sacrifices of Ontario soldiers and peacekeepers on Remembrance Day and celebrate our nationhood on Canada Day at Queen’s Park
  • [...]
https://www.ontario.ca/page/ministry-citizenship-and-immigration

Refugees are not allowed to work unless they gain a permit to do so:
Can a refugee work in Canada?
Region: OntarioAnswer Number: 674


Refugees are not allowed to work in Canada unless they obtain a work permit from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC).

Most refugee claimants can apply to IRCC for a work permit once their refugee claims have been referred to the Refugee Protection Division of the Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB). Generally, only those who cannot pay for their basic needs without public assistance are eligible for a work permit. Furthermore, they may need to provide IRCC with the results of a medical examination before a work permit is granted.

To apply for a work permit, an application must be completed and mailed to IRCC. Additional documents, such as a copy of a passport or travel document, must be included with the application. Also, applicants must provide:

  • proof that their Personal Information Form has been submitted to the IRB as part of their application for refugee status, or
  • a copy of the completed Personal Information Form, which was signed and stamped by the IRB.
Once a refugee has been granted a work permit from IRCC, they can apply for a social insurance number (SIN), which allows a refugee to legally work, pay taxes, and use government services. Refugee claimants do not need to pay a fee to apply for a work permit or a SIN.

For more information about work permits and to obtain application forms, visit Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.
[...]
https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/can-a-refugee-work-in-canada/
 
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I think his position is that immigrants will steal jobs from Canadians. He doesn't have to explain it -- it's like "gravy train". "Take care of our own" is one of those slogans that appeal to a certain block of voters but doesn't need to be backed up with anything specific.

Exactly.

It's coded racism - the people he's talking to hear him loud and clear.

Those who confront him over it are labelled as politically correct, just trying to find fault over nothing, etc., which appeals even more to his base.

Simple but effective.
 
Ford hasn’t defined what his “take care of our own” statement actually means. However, we can infer it means something like all levels of government in Canada should distinguish between Canadian citizens and non-citizens, and should privilege the welfare and interests of the former over the latter. That would be uncontroversial in a normal country, though for Canadian bien-pensants it’s apparently on par with Hitler’s Nuremberg address.
Well, another Doug Ford trailer is hitched. Incorrectly.

Canada conforms to an agreement that 145 nations signed. You could have looked this up, but instead, insist on knee-jerking:
The 1951 Refugee Convention is the key legal document that forms the basis of our work. Ratified by 145 State parties, it defines the term ‘refugee’ and outlines the rights of the displaced, as well as the legal obligations of States to protect them.

The core principle is non-refoulement, which asserts that a refugee should not be returned to a country where they face serious threats to their life or freedom. This is now considered a rule of customary international law.

UNHCR serves as the ‘guardian’ of the 1951 Convention and its 1967 Protocol. According to the legislation, States are expected to cooperate with us in ensuring that the rights of refugees are respected and protected.
[...]
http://www.unhcr.org/1951-refugee-convention.html

The Asylum Agreement with the US is here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio.../agreements/safe-third-country-agreement.html
 
The video of the news-scrum following his "our own" remarks:

Doug Ford defends 'take care of our own' remark on immigration

BY THE CANADIAN PRESS
POSTED MAY 12, 2018 12:28 PM EDT
LAST UPDATED MAY 12, 2018 AT 5:12 PM EDT

http://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/05/12/doug-ford-immigration/

Chris Selley: Ford the huckster replaces calm, measured version in second leaders’ debate
The joyless, sputtering, fact-free version of Doug Ford that showed up for the 'northern issues' debate is exactly the one his opponents need Ontarians to see

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...alm-measured-version-in-second-leaders-debate
 
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Am I to infer that Dougie has got a sweet deal training programme set up for me in Timmins where I come in, get overpaid, and teach some reluctant locals how to procreate in order to provide bodies to fill the job positions that need filling now?

Man, he's perfect for government.


Question: How did his comment go over with the local audience?
 
The video of the news-scrum following his "our own" remarks:

Doug Ford defends 'take care of our own' remark on immigration

BY THE CANADIAN PRESS
POSTED MAY 12, 2018 12:28 PM EDT
LAST UPDATED MAY 12, 2018 AT 5:12 PM EDT

http://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/05/12/doug-ford-immigration/

Chris Selley: Ford the huckster replaces calm, measured version in second leaders’ debate
The joyless, sputtering, fact-free version of Doug Ford that showed up for the 'northern issues' debate is exactly the one his opponents need Ontarians to see

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...alm-measured-version-in-second-leaders-debate


LOL

He gives his cell phone number to all new Canadians?

What a swell guy!
 

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