2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[steveintoronto]

It’s understandable that foreigners would view Ontario as nothing more than a two bit imitation of the US, but that’s no excuse for us to do so, however much we may disdain Ford.

Except they don't. Far from it, save for your eyes. It wouldn't be a story if they did, would it?

Perhaps the point has alluded you, rampant preconceptions do that, but Canada is viewed as distinctly different from the US in US, UK and the world press. And that's why the parallel is so shocking and newsworthy.

Perhaps you haven't noticed, you would have to be an international reader to, but rightly or wrongly, JT is the darling of the western press, and along with Merkel, considered to be the remaining flag bearer for the progressive liberal centre with Obama's demise. Not to mention CETA and TPP.

It is precisely because Canada is considered distinctly different that 'these' headlines are appearing in the informed, outward looking international press. The last big shock for them was Rob Ford. A shock for us too...

Toronto Sun? Not so much...

Here's how The Economist (that bastion of leftie, tax-loving, anti-corporate "rot") sees it:

A different kind of populismAnti-elitist politicians in Canada are courting immigrants
That is no reason for liberals to be complacent

Print edition | The Americas
Apr 19th 2018| OTTAWA

EVER since Doug Ford became the leader of Ontario’s centre-right Progressive Conservative Party on March 10th, he has been asked if he is Canada’s Donald Trump. The two have much in common. Big, beefy and blond, Mr Ford inherited a large product-labelling company, yet campaigns against elites who “drink champagne with their pinkies in the air”. He loathes regulation and taxes, and vows to repeal Ontario’s carbon cap-and-trade system. Two books about his late brother Rob, Toronto’s crack-smoking mayor, paint the surviving Ford as impulsive, undisciplined, indiscreet and a bully.
[...]

https://www.economist.com/news/amer...-anti-elitist-politicians-canada-are-courting

Of course it was written by an elitist:

Madelaine Drohan is the Canada correspondent for The Economist. For the last 40 years, she has covered business and politics in Canada, Europe, Africa and Asia. In 2016, she became a senior fellow at the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Ottawa. In 2015-2016 she was the Prime Ministers of Canada fellow at the Public Policy Forum.

She is the author of The 9 Habits of Highly Successful Resource Economies: Lessons for Canada, a research report that she wrote in 2012 for the Canadian International Council.

Her book, Making a Killing: How and why corporations use armed force to do business, was published in 2003 by Random House of Canada and in 2004 by The Lyons Press in the United States. It won the Ottawa Book Award and was short-listed for the National Business Book of the Year Award in 2004.

When possible, she conducts journalism workshops for media in Africa and Southeast Asia, with a special focus on business and investigative journalism.

She was awarded a Reuters Fellowship at Oxford University in 1998, and the Hyman Solomon Award for Excellence in Public Policy Journalism in 2001. She was a 2004-2005 Media Fellow at the Chumir Foundation for Ethics in Leadership and the 2004-2005 Journalist in Residence at Carleton University.

She has sat as a volunteer director on the boards of the North-South Institute, Transparency International Canada and Partnership Africa Canada, where she was also president. She lives in Ottawa.

http://www.madelainedrohan.com/

Doug reads that as "Blah, blah, blah, blah...She lives in Ottawa.". So she must drink tea and hang out with the Governors-General and go to costume balls and spend taxpayers money.

"I'll cut her job and the position of G-G if I'm elected!"

 

[pman]

Well, to that I subscribe to the FT and the Economist, I read the SMH during the winter when I live in Sydney, and I did a shit ton of capital markets business in London and NYC over 26 years, so my assertion that Canada has about zero international presence does have some empirical foundation.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Well, to that I subscribe to the FT and the Economist, I read the SMH during the winter when I live in Sydney, and I did a shit ton of capital markets business in London and NYC over 26 years, so my assertion that Canada has about zero international presence does have some empirical foundation.

While this is true isofar as international media are concerned, you guys are now talking about presence vs perception and you're both right.

 

[steveintoronto]

so my assertion that Canada has about zero international presence does have some empirical foundation.

And the Emperor has no clothes.

While this is true isofar as international media are concerned, you guys are now talking about presence vs perception and you're both right.

I posted examples. Linked and referenced. I can post a lot more.

The claim that "Canada has about zero international presence" speaks volumes about @pman, not Canada.

Btw: SMH used to be a good newspaper, but Fairfax has gone the way of TorStar. I used to read it faithfully at one time, along with Murdoch's chain, including The Australian. The Empire has fallen...

 

[SunriseChampion]

Yes, alright, "about zero" might be an exaggeration, but it's fairly absent in non-US media. I don't read/watch any US media so I'm no expert, but I do read/watch some European and South African (I have a strange fascination with the place) media and there isn't much.
This reminds me, last week, Deutsche Welle's English service was reporting that "a number of downtown streets are closed following the van attack" in reference to Yonge Street in North York. Sort of illustrates the point about us being an afterthought.

 

[Northern Light]

Yes, alright, "about zero" might be an exaggeration, but it's fairly absent in non-US media. I don't read/watch any US media so I'm no expert, but I do read/watch some European and South African (I have a strange fascination with the place) media and there isn't much.
This reminds me, last week, Deutsche Welle's English service was reporting that "a number of downtown streets are closed following the van attack" in reference to Yonge Street in North York. Sort of illustrates the point about us being an afterthought.

May I pull my usual stunt and split the difference?

The New York Times maintains SIX reporters in Canada, so far as I know, more than any country outside the U.S., regardless they post about 1 Canada story per day, and 1 extended length feature on something to do w/Canada per month.

Feel free to go to www.nyt.com, and search 'Canada' and see the results.

PS, you'll get 10 original stories for the last week.

Now, is that a fair encapsulation of U.S., let alone world coverage? No.

U.S. TV media by and large cover Canada for disaster porn, or our PM doing a state visit or the like.

Though NYT's print coverage isn't unique, the Washington Post is relatively Canada heavy as well.

The Economist, in my experience, covers Canada about twice a month. Which relative to 5-6 U.S. themed articles weekly is a tad light, but not terrible.

Canada is not routinely on the lips of the world, nor is it an afterthought.

Among the more educated and in the media that serve same, our mentions are disproportionate to our size (population), yet general knowledge among global masses may be thin.

But in fairness.....how many Canadians can name the Aussie PM; or the Italian one? Mass awareness of international affairs is not globally ubiquitous to say the least.

So a fair judge might say we have a presence...it could be larger.

PS, keep up w/the Conversation @MTown

 

[steveintoronto]

Yes, alright, "about zero" might be an exaggeration, but it's fairly absent in non-US media.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I suggest you read a little more widely, and start with the UK press.
Guardian has a whole section devoted to Canada, and much of it right now is on Ford.

For example:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/30/doug-ford-ontario-conservative-trump-comparison-canada

And to buttress the point I made about Canada "being in the news in the international press" is that much of it revolves around 'how like the US and Trumpism' Canada is becoming.

I'll state it again, and defy anyone to prove otherwise: Canada is known as being *distinct* from the US in the educated and aware press of the Western world. Forget tabloids, and what papers like the SMH and Melbourne Age have become, it's distressing how many nations' press are now catering to the inward iGen.

Btw: Anyone who claims to be in "capital markets business" doesn't read the SMH for their info. They read The Australian. Now in the same stable as the WSJ and other Dow Jones pubs. But I digress...

 

[SunriseChampion]

Of course, as usual, the answer lies in the golden middle. Typical.



PS: @steveintoronto, I was agreeing with you about Canada being viewed as distinct.
I also agree that I should read more widely.

 

[adma]

Mainstreet: PC down 5, Lib up 4, NDP up 3. Of course, its being Mainstreet, it's more of a return to par and "correction" after the previous poll...
https://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/ford-pc-lead-over-liberals-and-ndp-has-narrowed/

 

[steveintoronto]

May I pull my usual stunt and split the difference?

The New York Times maintains SIX reporters in Canada, so far as I know, more than any country outside the U.S., regardless they post about 1 Canada story per day, and 1 extended length feature on something to do w/Canada per month.

Feel free to go to www.nyt.com, and search 'Canada' and see the results.

PS, you'll get 10 original stories for the last week.

Now, is that a fair encapsulation of U.S., let alone world coverage? No.

U.S. TV media by and large cover Canada for disaster porn, or our PM doing a state visit or the like.

Though NYT's print coverage isn't unique, the Washington Post is relatively Canada heavy as well.

The Economist, in my experience, covers Canada about twice a month. Which relative to 5-6 U.S. themed articles weekly is a tad light, but not terrible.

Canada is not routinely on the lips of the world, nor is it an afterthought.

Among the more educated and in the media that serve same, our mentions are disproportionate to our size (population), yet general knowledge among global masses may be thin.

But in fairness.....how many Canadians can name the Aussie PM; or the Italian one? Mass awareness of international affairs is not globally ubiquitous to say the least.

So a fair judge might say we have a presence...it could be larger.

PS, keep up w/the Conversation @MTown

And here's yesterday's WashPost:

The Americas
The brother of infamous Toronto mayor Rob Ford is running for office — and he sounds a lot like Trump

By Alan FreemanApril 29 at 8:00 AM
[...]
But Doug Ford’s rhetoric on the campaign trail has compelled observers to link him to another political name: President Trump.

Ford has positioned himself as the antithesis of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and as a right-of-center businessman who derides elites, whom he has described as “people who look down on the average, common folk, thinking they’re smarter and that they know better to tell us how to live our lives.”

“They have their glasses of champagne with their pinkies up in the air, looking down like they’re better than you are,” Ford, the surprise winner in a March leadership race for the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party, recently told a Toronto radio talk show.
[...]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...123715f78df_story.html?utm_term=.61b940666e9b

Meantime, for the poster querying building in the Greenbelt:

Doug Ford says if elected he would open up Greenbelt for some development
For every piece of the Greenbelt opened for development, Doug Ford says he would add equivalent land to the protected area to ensure it doesn’t change in size, but he didn’t offer details on how that would work.

Apr 30, 2018, 12:38 PM

http://www.680news.com/video/2018/0...would-open-up-greenbelt-for-some-development/

It's a video interview. The man is truly convincing...phhh...

 

[Northern Light]

Mainstreet: PC down 5, Lib up 4, NDP up 3. Of course, its being Mainstreet, it's more of a return to par and "correction" after the previous poll...
https://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/ford-pc-lead-over-liberals-and-ndp-has-narrowed/

Mainstreet polls should be thrown in the trash the moment they are issued. No matter one's politics.

Their track record is poor and they in fact have been accused, of attempting to mislead media and the electorate in respect of polls issued in advance of the last Mayoral election in Calgary.

(For the record their published polls were so wrong as to be utterly laughable)

Who knows they might be right this time, but they deserve no credence.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Lol!
From that 680 piece: "... and there's no more property available to build housing."

Next premier of Ontario? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy!?!

 

[steveintoronto]

Lol!
From that 680 piece: "... and there's no more property available to build housing."

Next premier of Ontario? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy!?!

I wouldn't buy a free label from the man, let alone allow him to give me money...

From that bastion of Leftie Louts and Layabouts, the Fraser Institute:

CANADA

January 9, 2018 3:35 pm
Updated: January 9, 2018 9:27 pm
Population density in Toronto significantly less compared to other major cities: Fraser Institute
By Erica VellaDigital Broadcast Journalist Global News

Whether you live or commute in Toronto, all would agree that there is a lot of congestion in the city. Has Toronto become too dense in population? Erica Vella has the answers.


A A

A new study from the Fraser Institute says cities in Canada are significantly less dense than other major cities around the world.

The study lists population densities of 30 cities in high income and developed countries, and Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto come 13th, 16th and 19th on the list, respectively.

The most dense city listed is Hong Kong, with 25,719 people per square kilometre.

READ MORE: Over 80% of middle-class families face higher income taxes under the Liberals: report

Fraser Institute senior policy analyst Josef Filipowicz said because Canadian cities are less dense, places like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver can likely accommodate more housing supply.

“Toronto is a large growing city that is facing an affordability crunch,” Filipowicz said.

“What we found in our study is that there is a lot of room for Toronto to grow, notably upwards, through population density…When you compare Toronto to other North American or world cities in other high income countries, Toronto and other Canadian cities are not all that dense.”

LISTEN: Fraser Institute senior policy analyst Josef Filipowicz talks to Global Newsradio 640 Toronto



According to the study, Toronto has 4,457 people per square kilometre, Montreal has 4,916 people per square kilometre and Vancouver, Canada’s densest city, has 5,493 people per square kilometre.

The population density in New York City is more than double Toronto’s, with 10,935 people per square kilometre.

READ MORE: Toronto secondary schools showing mixed progress: Fraser Institute report

“Certainly, city hall and the province want more density [and] there is plenty of room to do it,”Filipowicz said.

“Toronto faces constraints on growing outwards. We have lake Ontario and provincial policy that makes it difficult to grow outward…so the only option that remains if wants to continue growing as a city is upwards, through higher population density.”

The list also includes Canadian cities like Mississauga with 2,468 people per square kilometre and Calgary with 2,112 people per square kilometre.

WATCH: Alan Carter speaks with Doug Saunders about population density

© 2018 Global News, a division of Corus Entertainment Inc.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3954609/population-density-in-toronto-fraser-institute/

 

[steveintoronto]

Mainstreet: PC down 5, Lib up 4, NDP up 3. Of course, its being Mainstreet, it's more of a return to par and "correction" after the previous poll...
https://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/ford-pc-lead-over-liberals-and-ndp-has-narrowed/

All of the polls are suspect at this point in time. What they reflect is angst with Wynne, not who they are voting for, but rather, against, *at this or recently to now in time*. It's measuring hostility, not voting intention.

What's telling is the trend. And every time Ford opens his mouth, the more people will realize the consequence of their actions if they let their emotions get the better of them.

There's no other way to put this: the Cons blew it, big time. They elected an idiot as leader, and now they're going to pay the price. Either Mulroney or Elliot could easily have offered a safe alternative to voting Wynne. You could spite Wynne without blowing your head off. That all disappeared when the moron was elected.

As soon as the polls start showing the Cons in a consistent minority, the talk of Coalition will start in earnest. Wait for it! "Anything but Ford".

 

[SunriseChampion]

Anything but Ford or anyone but Ford?

That's quite the indictment of the man, if the former.

I hope you're right. This is one of the most depressing elections I can remember.