2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[AlvinofDiaspar]

But they are not investigators who know how to question. Witness what happened to that girl who claimed her hajab got cut. Look at how those reporters "investigated"

Sorry, it's called investigative journalism for a reason. If you are going to throw that out now, be ready to throw away a good chunk of journalism that borne fruit. Also, keep in mind the example you've cited was reported by the police as well, whom I am sure knew how to question.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Patrick Brown’s staff disowned him so quickly, it’s as if they already knew.

The present story(ies) being circulated certainly doesn't add-up.

you always hear whispers about most politicians.

And that is exactly the danger for Horwarth and Wynne alike. They may feel that being of the 'gentler persuasion' renders them immune to such charges. Think again. I and quite a few others find both "creepy". What's good for the Gander, is good for the Goose. Or Gooser. All it will take is a 'dirty whisper' to knock five or more points off their polling. And Wynne is the one most prone.

With that, I do think a female leader should be chosen in today's climate if the PCs were smart.

Only on merit, or we take true feminism backward. The "feminism" card has been played far too loosely of late, and watch for a number of notable feminists, even more than have already, on the #MeToo movement, to address this. It's to the point of lending itself being somewhere between a 'Wild Goose Chase' and 'Farce'. It will backfire, by far too many reactionaries drowning out those able and willing to make logical, concise and compelling cases. Ghomeshi, the Sequel.

It's already happening in the academic literary world.

Also, keep in mind the example you've cited was reported by the police as well, whom I am sure knew how to question.

I'm not sure of your intended point, but it just backfired. I see what you had hoped to illustrate there in terms of rebuttal of the point you addressed...but how does the Police involvement in that case (some of us always suspected the story, the giveaway was the younger brother's statements to the press) make the present media speculation any more admissible in a genuine legal inquiry?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm not sure of your intended point, but it just backfired. I see what you had hoped to illustrate there in terms of rebuttal of the point you addressed...but how does the Police involvement in that case (some of us always suspected the story, the giveaway was the younger brother's statements to the press) make the present media speculation any more admissible in a genuine legal inquiry?

Nice try, but the point being process or not, the accused and the party itself has already made their own judgement in this case - a judgement they are not required to make if they don't find it solid/believable enough. You can't end what couldn't have been ended by public pressure alone (and frankly, public pressure was not that vociferous in the grand scheme of things). The public at large didn't call on him to resign in the immediate confusion - his own performance and lieutenants made his resignation inevitable. J'accuse wasn't the hand behind the knife - he himself has fallen onto it without prompting.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

You still haven't addressed as to how bringing "the police" into the line of logic as to CTV's integrity or not adds any credence to the "investigative journalism" point you were replying to.

Sorry, it's called investigative journalism for a reason

From Shermans to 'scissored' Hijabs...police statements are far from binding, and in some cases, wildly irresponsible.

CTV are already under a lot of scrutiny over this, as well they should be. So let's flip this over, using your point to buttress your claim on the CTV:

Where are the police statements on the "allegations"? Let's not mix optics, fully understandable, for Brown's demise.

And let's concentrate more on 'How can such allegations be able to ruin people's lives with no proven legal basis'? This has the distinct whiff of being a palace coup. Of course, there is no acceptable answer, this has happened many times in the past, national elections have been thrown by them, the FedLibs just two back, IIRC. And it turned out, after *legal hearings* to be baseless.

So where does this end?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You still haven't addressed as to how bringing "the police" into the line of logic as to CTV's integrity or not adds any credence to the "investigative journalism" point you were replying to.

At this point in time, citing police statements as proof of anything this important is a very dangerous tactic. Courts, yes, police statements, no. The events of the past week show how misleading that can be.

From Shermans to 'scissored' Hijabs...

CTV are already under a lot of scrutiny over this, as well they should be.

If one can't trust police statements and report it as such when there is no indication of *any* malfeasance, and only fall back onto the courts (if it even gets to t hat point), I am not even sure if there are any purpose to reporting any news around crimes and emergencies. It is not citing police statements as "proof", it is citing them as facts established by parties that are considered as trustworthy. Besides, it doesn't mean that these statements cannot be questioned or walked back as new information emerges - it happened in both cases you have mentioned and it wasn't like the world had ended because of it.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

If one can't trust police statements and report it as such when there is no indication of *any* malfeasance, and only fall back onto the courts, I am not even sure if there are any purpose to reporting any news around crimes and emergencies. It is not citing police statements as "proof", it is citing them as facts established by parties that are considered as trustworthy.

AoD

Well, lets start with Hijab and Shermans...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, lets start with Hijab and Shermans...

So? Like I have said - new information was reported and the matter corrected itself, the way it should have been. There was no need to wait for the courts to kick in *at all*. In fact, good luck waiting for that - it wouldn't be news - it would be history by the time it gets to that stage (if at all).

AoD

 

[Videodrome]

CP24 @CP2435s
BREAKING: The Ontario PC executives have voted for a leadership race before the general election

Interesting.

 

[steveintoronto]

Well at least with police reports, erroneous as they can be, you know who made them. That infers *accountability*.

And yet again, the (small f) feminists take on the challenge:
"[...]
On the spectrum of predatory sexual behaviour, neither alleged incident, between a man and a woman in the bedroom, moves the needle anywhere towards assault or misconduct. No assault and no abuse, unless we’ve suddenly reverted to the sexual corset of the ’50s.

To declare otherwise is to infantilize women.

We are not children. We are not made of spun sugar. We draw our own boundaries.

If you can’t handle the heat, stay out of the bedroom."

Rosie DiManno usually appears Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...k-browns-downfall-an-affront-to-fairness.html

The backlash from women who see the threat to their freedoms from this is beginning. And it's growing, and thank God for that. I'd much rather read and share my life with a truly liberated woman than one who wears it as the latest fad from Max Factor. (Or is it iFactor nowdays?)

 

[WislaHD]

I don't think we've ever had a leadership race this close to an election before.

Apparently Diefenbaker won a leadership race 6 months before an election, but he was already the sitting leader at the time.

 

[Amare]

Interesting.

And with that, it seals the PC's doom for the provincial election. Again, Ontarians will have no time to get a sense of what the new leader is all about.

There is also some more breaking news to this ongoing fiasco. The network that broke the Patrick Brown allegations (CTV) has suspended their Queen's Park reporter Paul Bliss pending an investigation. I cant find any info on what the investigation involves.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And with that, it seals the PC's doom for the provincial election. Again, Ontarians will have no time to get a sense of what the new leader is all about.

There is also some more breaking news to this ongoing fiasco. The network that broke the Patrick Brown allegations (CTV) has suspended their Queen's Park reporter Paul Bliss pending an investigation. I cant find any info on what the investigation involves.

https://medium.com/@bridget.erin.brown/metoo-in-canadian-broadcasting-f881c3a50b74

Warnings on the beginning of the piece.

AoD

 

[Amare]

https://medium.com/@bridget.erin.brown/metoo-in-canadian-broadcasting-f881c3a50b74

Warnings on the beginning of the piece.

AoD

Well there's another career destroyed. Let's see if Bell Media actually goes through a full investigation before doing anything more than a suspension, or if they just fire him within the coming days. If it's anything like how they handled Stephen LeDrew's case, he'll be let go.

Thanks for that link @AlvinofDiaspar

 

[WislaHD]

And with that, it seals the PC's doom for the provincial election. Again, Ontarians will have no time to get a sense of what the new leader is all about.

Honestly, I think the PC's strategy is to put Mulroney's daughter infront of the electorate and hope for the best.

And that probably is their best shot now. But it is risky, as anyone (DoFo) can make a move during this leadership race.

 

[MetroMan]

Honestly, I think the PC's strategy is to put Mulroney's daughter infront of the electorate and hope for the best.

And that probably is their best shot now. But it is risky, as anyone (DoFo) can make a move during this leadership race.

Yeah. If Doug runs, it could get really dirty. He’s not loyal to the party, he’s loyal to himself.

He might even use it as a launching pad for the mayoral election, double dipping to start campaigning early.