2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[SunriseChampion]

I sort of reckon it will be less of a win than last time only because I think most neutrals think Brown less scary than Hudak. Brown has also done a bit to seem moderate which Hudák didn't care for.

The last election I was making phone calls on behalf of a Green candidate in Toronto, soliciting volunteers, donations, and support from previous donors (not party members) in our riding. There were two types of previous donors I talked to: those who were in with us again and the vast majority who were seriously afraid of the PCs getting elected and so were voting Liberal, no matter what. They couldn't have been more clear.
So, is Brown as worrying to neutrals as Hudák?

I'd say not which is why I expect a minority government.
I likely won't be volunteering again this time around, but I almost want to just to see if the reaction I encounter is similar to last time.

 

[syn]

It's pretty clear the Liberals can't really appeal much to the center-right vote and are going to focus on burying the NDP vote.

The NDP is itching for a 3-way split similar to 2011 where they hope to win some seats in Scarborough and the city's NW quadrant. I think this minimum wage increase is going to prove very popular in areas in outer Toronto with a large retail and service working class.

They'll probably be successful in that strategy.

Horwath seems like quite an ineffective leader - after nearly a decade of leadership, I rarely get an idea of what this current incarnation of the NDP really stands for.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

It is worth mentioning too that Wynne's reforms to OSAP for post-secondary students has been really effective for students.

 

[King of Kensington]

They'll probably be successful in that strategy.

Horwath seems like quite an ineffective leader - after nearly a decade of leadership, I rarely get an idea of what this current incarnation of the NDP really stands for.

Andrea Horwath seems fixated on the "orange Tories" strategy. That strategy made more sense when Hudak was running on the hard right. The problem for the ONDP is that with Brown's move to the center I think a lot of those soft PC voters will return "home."

 

[Admiral Beez]

It is worth mentioning too that Wynne's reforms to OSAP for post-secondary students has been really effective for students.

Giving away other people’s money is always going to be popular. It’s the first thing those in power seeking to stay reach for.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Giving away other people’s money is always going to be popular. It’s the first thing those in power seeking to stay reach for.

Well in this case, it was more of a reorganization of the grant system than taxing people higher.

I'm not afraid to give credit where credit is due.

 

[ADRM]

Giving away other people’s money is always going to be popular. It’s the first thing those in power seeking to stay reach for.

"Giving other people's money away" is a really weird interpretation of "making it easier to get an education and move up the socio-economic ladder."

Are there any conservative talking points that aren't simplistic and reductive tropes?

 

[Admiral Beez]

"Giving other people's money away" is a really weird interpretation of "making it easier to get an education and move up the socio-economic ladder."

Are there any conservative talking points that aren't simplistic and reductive tropes?

Easy there you liberal snowflake....

...just kidding but I hope you feel as ridiculous as I did throwing the de rigueur labels around. Peel the onion a bit and life is a little more nuanced than it may seem. I received my share of OSAP grants and loans and have voted ON Liberal every time, except for Mike Harris in 1992 when Bob Rae had to be destroyed. Does that make me a socialist, progressive or conservative? Why not a little of all three?

As for my earlier comment, it stands for all governments in power. The first thing they do when seeking re-election is use the public money for pork and programs to distract and entice us.

 

[ADRM]

Easy there you liberal snowflake....

...just kidding but I hope you feel as ridiculous as I did throwing the de rigueur labels around. Peel the onion a bit and life is a little more nuanced than it may seem. I received my share of OSAP grants and loans and have voted ON Liberal every time, except for Mike Harris in 1992 when Bob Rae had to be destroyed. Does that make me a socialist, progressive or conservative? Why not a little of all three?

As for my earlier comment, it stands for all governments in power. The first thing they do when seeking re-election is use the public money for pork and programs to distract and entice us.

I'm not sure what label you've taken exception to, but unless I'm misreading your latest post, you're now equating OSAP to "pork", which seems like a double-down on your original post.

And no, my personal opinion is that there should be no nuance at all when it comes to public education; if you're opposed to it, I'm gonna argue with you. And that's how it should be; I like Ontario not being the States.

 

[SunriseChampion]

He did say pork and programs. I doubt he was equating OSAP with "pork" especially after declaring his own take of student loans.

He's not lying about what governments in power always do when seeking re-election. Just because such cynical tactics are used doesn't mean that some of the outcomes can't be desirable. Which is to say that two people can disagree on the means to achieving the same desired ends.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

As for my earlier comment, it stands for all governments in power. The first thing they do when seeking re-election is use the public money for pork and programs to distract and entice us.

Or tax cuts, but it is interesting how THAT never gets mentioned as a carrot. I mean, if you really think about it - how wise is it for one to shrink their own income stream when you are carrying a debt load?

AoD

 

[Jasmine18]

Or tax cuts, but it is interesting how THAT never gets mentioned as a carrot. I mean, if you really think about it - how wise is it for one to shrink their own income stream when you are carrying a debt load?

AoD

That is now the largest debt for a state or Province thanks to the Liberals quality governance since 2003...

Its gonna be funny when the liberals win and people complain about why our taxes are so high and increasing and hydro bills are skyrocketing and why insurance rates are going up then down.

The liberals are pretty throwing everything they have at winning and dont give a crap about the cost or consquences till after.

I do like the social benefits but always do realize that the liberals end up costing taxpayers more in the end. To me there are no real benefits as everything the liberals give they take back in another way.

Like how is it social justice to give min wage earners a big increase but a lot insurance companies to charge the highest insurance rates to people mostly from low income areas ? lol

 

[ADRM]

That is now the largest debt for a state or Province thanks to the Liberals quality governance since 2003...

Its gonna be funny when the liberals win and people complain about why our taxes are so high and increasing and hydro bills are skyrocketing and why insurance rates are going up then down.

The liberals are pretty throwing everything they have at winning and dont give a crap about the cost or consquences till after.

I do like the social benefits but always do realize that the liberals end up costing taxpayers more in the end. To me there are no real benefits as everything the liberals give they take back in another way.

Like how is it social justice to give min wage earners a big increase but a lot insurance companies to charge the highest insurance rates to people mostly from low income areas ? lol

For the something-billionth time, there isn't a shred of credibility to your assertions about high taxes or the likelihood of that happening.

Also, you can't escape the fact that Ontario has the lowest per capita program spending in the country.

Facts are facts are facts.

You sound like a Trumper.

 

[TheKingEast]

For the something-billionth time, there isn't a shred of credibility to your assertions about high taxes or the likelihood of that happening.

Also, you can't escape the fact that Ontario has the lowest per capita program spending in the country.

Facts are facts are facts.

You sound like a Trumper.

Welp, this is precisely why I stopped trying to have any meaningful convo in here. Seems like anything that isn't cheerleading for the Libs is met with the above

 

[TransitBart]

That said, I was at a Cineplex today to see 'Darkest Hour'....no cashiers at all, not accepting cash for tickets, all-kiosk.

Some will be offset by displacement (new and different jobs)

Maintaining and repairing kiosks.