2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[SunriseChampion]

While I don't disagree with your statement about the Liberals only caring about themselves, I do disagree with your doom and gloom assertion.

Any business worth its salt knows to take care of their labour without which there is no business. Any business worth its salt will use this opportunity to become more efficient, perhaps driving up productivity. Increased productivity pays for increased wages. Most businesses also control their prices which they can increase to cover costs.

Stagnant wages are bad for the economy.
Low productivity is bad for the economy.
Capital that treats labour poorly is bad for said capital.

I have no sympathy for businesses that can't use increases in efficiency and control of prices and marketing to offset costs.
If you can't use the economic tools available to you as a business in order to play the liberal economy game then you have no business being in business.

 

[Jasmine18]

While I don't disagree with your statement about the Liberals only caring about themselves, I do disagree with your doom and gloom assertion.

Any business worth its salt knows to take care of their labour without which there is no business. Any business worth its salt will use this opportunity to become more efficient, perhaps driving up productivity. Increased productivity pays for increased wages. Most businesses also control their prices which they can increase to cover costs.

Stagnant wages are bad for the economy.
Low productivity is bad for the economy.
Capital that treats labour poorly is bad for said capital.

I have no sympathy for businesses that can't use increases in efficiency and control of prices and marketing to offset costs.
If you can't use the economic tools available to you as a business in order to play the liberal economy game then you have no business being in business.

Two issues, there is no reason why this increase could not have been done before or been over a greater peroid of time apart from political reasons.

The only reason they did this is to win the next election. Wynne has done more in the past year then in her entire time as leader since 2011, and its no coincidence. Her budget numbers are found to be misleading and frankly we all know if she wins, we will have to pay greater taxes and fees to make up to keep the liberals in power.

The issue I have with the liberals, is whatever they give, they end up taking back in the end.

 

[SunriseChampion]

The political angle I won't disagree with, I'm just here for the economics.

 

[TheKingEast]

Whatever the motives of the Liberals may be I think is of far less concern to the working poor than the fact their wages have been raised significantly.

Shouldn’t they be concerned with possibly losing their jobs or having their hours cut as a result?

If my company had to increase salaries across the board I’d expect to see less people in the office.

Don’t have an issue with the increased wage, I’m more concerned with the quick turnaround.

 

[picard102]

Because we dont have to act like idiots and go extremes...why Not increase the min wage to 15 bucks over 4 years, instead of 2... I doubt there be any negative effects unlike now./QUOTE]

Bullshit. Businesses would still have screamed bloody murder and used it as a convenient excuse to increase profits.

 

[ADRM]

if she wins, we will have to pay greater taxes and fees to make up to keep the liberals in power.

Presenting baseless fiction as fact is generally unbecoming and certainly makes for a bad debate.

 

[Oddpie]

About the minimum wage, I just found out New York State is also increasing theirs to $15. The schedule looks a little a different but not by much. To me that seems like another argument to increase it, in that we're not just out in left field here.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/minwage.shtm

 

[ADRM]

About the minimum wage, I just found out New York State is also increasing theirs to $15. The schedule looks a little a different but not by much. To me that seems like another argument to increase it, in that we're not just out in left field here.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/minwage.shtm

And that's USD, which at today's rate equals about $18.60 CAD.

 

[salsa]

Many businesses are going to cut down everything to the bare basics where the actual increase in wages will end up meaingless for many min wage workers now. Reduced Hours, reduction of full time work, reduction in benefits. I actully work at a resturant as a waitres and now get paid less hours thanks to the Liberals my manager.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Northern Light]

About the minimum wage, I just found out New York State is also increasing theirs to $15. The schedule looks a little a different but not by much. To me that seems like another argument to increase it, in that we're not just out in left field here.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/minwage.shtm

California is also going to $15 USD by 2022/23 (depending on size of business); assuming ON goes to $15Cdn on Jan 1, 2019 and indexes there after, we'll be at about $16.35Cdn in 2023; or about $2 per hour cheaper.

Ballot initiatives are also under way in several US States to raise the minimum wage, including Mass, where the proposal will be $15USD; while the newly elected Governor of NJ has promised the same.

So this is not an outlier move at all.

Also, look for BC to go to $15 in short order; and the maritimes are looking at upward harmonizing their minimum wage as well.

 

[Northern Light]

Many businesses are going to cut down everything to the bare basics where the actual increase in wages will end up meaingless for many min wage workers now. Reduced Hours, reduction of full time work, reduction in benefits. I actully work at a resturant as a waitres and now get paid less hours thanks to the Liberals.

Worth noting is that your particular business will be one of the biggest beneficiaries of the changing wage.

Its called 'trading up' in industry jargon and basically means that folks who couldn't previously afford a table-service restaurant will trade-up from fast food now, at least sometimes; while others may order more expensive items on the menu.

Its also an option for your employer to hike prices, at least modestly, to defray all or a portion of the cost of new wages.

If they chose to do otherwise, that again, doesn't fall to the government.

That your hours were cut is unfortunate, though, not a choice of government.

Its worth adding here than January does tend to be a slow month for restaurants and many other retailers after the spending binge of December/Christmas.

 

[King of Kensington]

Shouldn’t thYey be concerned with possibly losing their jobs or having their hours cut as a result?

If my company had to increase salaries across the board I’d expect to see less people in the office.

Don’t have an issue with the increased wage, I’m more concerned with the quick turnaround.

Yeah, can't they just hold out until 2023 or so?

The net impact is positive, overwhelmingly so. No need to buy into doomsday scenarios - often promoted by the self-interested - about this only hurting those you're trying to help.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I can agree with the Libs getting annoyed with those who are breaking “the spirit” of the law, however where was this same outrage and quickness to action from the Libs during eHealth, Ornge, gas plants, etc, etc, etc?

 

[SunriseChampion]

I can agree with the Libs getting annoyed with those who are breaking “the spirit” of the law, however where was this same outrage and quickness to action from the Libs during eHealth, Ornge, gas plants, etc, etc, etc?

That's why I said I was here for the economics and not the politics.

Look, any business that deserves to be one does not have an issue with this wage hike because they adapted using the economic tools available to them.
Maybe some business owners spend too much time dicking around their summer and winter homes to have learnt how to run a business or that businesses aren't necessarily their personal ATMs with no withdrawal limit.

As someone who helps run a small business (pay way over minimum so I can't say I know what that looks like in first-person) and whose summer home is his two-person tent I have no sympathy for those who think capitalism and a liberal economy mean get-rich quick schemes on the backs of decency, honesty, quality, and respect.


Wait a minute. ......am I supposed to be upset that my wage will by next year have gone from triple minimum wage to merely double plus a few in just a year?
....maybe if I was a Tim Hortons franchisee.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That's why I said I was here for the economics and not the politics.

Why are we to care why you're here? I'd like to think the forum would be equally shaking their head had I wrote I'm here for the fun signatures. Instead, I stay on topic and try to contribute something sensible.

Look, any business that deserves to be one does not have an issue with this wage hike because they adapted using the economic tools available to them.

That's the big issue for the Tim Horton's franchisee, they don't have the tools to deal with the wage hike. Their input costs and prices are set by corporate, and corporate is not giving a break on inputs nor allowing a price increase.

So, what's the franchisee to do? Are they supposed to absorb 100% of the wage increase from their own income? I've read that the average franchisee makes about $175K to $200K a year (of course those with better locations or multiple locations make a lot more). But the Toronto Star is reporting that the wage increase will cost the average Timmies over $243K a year (per location). That's more than the average franchiee's income. So, something has to give?