2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[denfromoakvillemilton]

There's a point I want to bring up. John Tory is regularly being accused of riding the province's coattails with Smart Track. Doesn't anybody else find this strange? It's not like Chow's or Ford's platforms could be executed witout provincial support. No?

Well no, because SmartTrack is designed to work with provincial plans. Where the issue is saying that is wrong for him to that. It's not.

 

[kEiThZ]

The issues in Tory's plan as it related to Eglinton go way, way beyond the blithe "you don't do a BCA for an election campaign". They don't have a clear handle on what technology they are using, how that technology will integrate with existing GO operations, how it will integrate with Eglinton Avenue but they DO know what budget it can be done for (from back when it was no tunnel required) and how long it will take (seven years). It goes way past "honest mistake" and into failing basic smell tests.

I actually don't think this level of detail is required. And that's not just because I prefer Tory. I wouldn't expect that detail from any candidate. It would be on par with asking Chow about what her preferred route for the DRL is, and then nailing her about the details of that route. To determine answers to some of the questions you are asking here, it basically means that a candidate would have to the equivalent horsepower of Metrolinx's staff on just the transit portion of his campaign staff. There's a rough order of magnitude estimate. And there's detailed estimates. Don't think it's fair to expect a candidate to say whether it'll take 7 years or 12 years. I do expect someone on their campaign staff to point to similar examples, have some idea of the level of difficulty and give a ballpark estimate.

But Soknacki got slammed because his transit plan was simply to carry out plans and BCAs already done, which the media classified as "no plan". Well, in my book, better no plan that a crap one. Team Tory has also been slamming the Chow campaign because of weaknesses in her plan about availability of buses, but that issue has only one flaw - timeframe to get buses and lease a garage space - and not the several the Tory one does... and that's before we even talk about the TIF magic beans.

I fully concur that the criticism of Soknacki was absolutely unfair. Media's reporting on his transit policy was essentially a hatchet job. And I also disagree with Tory's criticism of Chow's bus plan.

On the TIF front, while I'm skeptical, I find the lack of analysis into Chow's funding plan for the DRL puzzling. She's essentially promising to cancel the Scarborough subway and keep the same tax levy and borrowing room for the DRL. And nobody seems to question that this idea will pass with council and the province?

 

[ssiguy2]

Let's face it, SmartTrack wouldn't even be really necessary {except for more stations allowing GO to have fewer} IF GO and Metrolinx accepted the fact that GO can be more than just a 905 service but they don't and probably never will.

GO service and service in Toronto show a complete contempt for the city and it's transit needs. The fare structure which is suppose to be distance based is grossly biased against inner-Toronto travel. They go out of their way to make sure Torontonians don't use the service so they can free up room for the 905 commuters.

If GO or Metrolinx gave a damn about Torontonians they would cut the fares in half even after GO/TTC fare integration and make the stops south of Bloor {Exhibition, Bloor West, and Main} completely free with a Metropass. They could do that tomorrow if they wanted to. No Royal Commissions, endless environmental reviews, or community consultations {as if anyone if going to bitch about much lower fares} are required but literally just a signature. They would probably find it wouldn't cost them a cent and possibly result in higher revenues as Torontonians flock to a existing service that they now will be able to afford.

I also, and have always believed, that UPX is toast after the Pan Am Games. The first new transit {and I use that word lightly} to open in the city in a decade and it has received nothing but scorn which it so richly deserves. The service will not only prove unpopular { generous ridership levels place it at a paltry 6,000 passengers a day, pathetic but even American standards} but there will be downright antagonism increasing as the line begins. Queen's Park will not electrify the spur for tourists and business class when such a move would be viewed with outrage as opposed to support.

The current sad reality is that much of the SmartTrack program is already built and just requires more stations and upgraded rail capacity. Metrolinx and GO could greatly improve transit service to Torontonians tomorrow but the sole reason they don't is because they don't want to.

 

[ehlow]

If they allowed Metropass to cover GO, they would also need to increase service to deal with the huge influx of new people using GO.

 

[innsertnamehere]

^don't even bother mentioning that, Ssiguy likes to pretend that GO transit is some sort of unlimited pool of unused capacity.

Also remember that 40+ GO trips a month in Toronto costs $175, while a metropass costs $138. The price difference really isn't that drastic.

 

[salsa]

^don't even bother mentioning that, Ssiguy likes to pretend that GO transit is some sort of unlimited pool of unused capacity.

He also likes to pretend that GO will just let people travel for free with a TTC metropass, from Unionville to Mississauga thanks to Smart Track (or smarttrax as he calls it). Because John Tory said so. You know, the same guy who once said that no tunnelling is necessary.

Also remember that 40+ GO trips a month in Toronto costs $175, while a metropass costs $138. The price difference really isn't that drastic.

What if you need to use both GO and TTC?

 

[kEiThZ]

^don't even bother mentioning that, Ssiguy likes to pretend that GO transit is some sort of unlimited pool of unused capacity.

Also remember that 40+ GO trips a month in Toronto costs $175, while a metropass costs $138. The price difference really isn't that drastic.

There's quite a bit of difference. The GO fare only covers the long haul portion of your trip. Getting to/from the stations at either end isn't covered.

GO and TTC really do need to discuss fare and service integration. It's total BS that people ride 20 stops on the subway to get downtown when there are functional GO corridors running parallel.

I'm hoping Smart Track will finally force this discussion.

 

[innsertnamehere]

obviously its without TTC transfer, which is why I have expressed interest, and so has metrolinx, in implementing fare integration once PRESTO rollout is complete on the TTC.

 

[jcam]

The premier released her mandate letters to each of her Ministers a couple of weeks back, essentially their marching orders. For MTO:
-Your tasks will include: "Developing customer-focused solutions to integrate fare and service. Your goal is to create a seamless and transparent fare system across the GTHA."

You could take that to mean on the low end, ensure Presto works and make zoned fares across the multiple agencies, or to the extreme and say Metrolinx will absorb the other agencies. Regardless, I think the fare issue will be addressed sooner rather than later.

As for SmartTrack, Tory will win the election, and then have "negotiations" with the province. The result will be that the Eglinton spur he talks of will be scrapped, because the planning is already there to extend the Crosstown west to the airport, and it will integrate with an existing line. He can say he tried, but the province assured him Crosstown will cover that segment. The rest is covered under GO RER or REX or whatever you'd like to call it. As a part of their downtown relief study, currently underway as I understand it, they're looking at both an eastern downtown relief line AND the existing GO corridors as ways to alleviate passenger traffic. Again, he'll say the province has studied 'x' and this is the best way to go forward. Smart politics on his part. He just has to defend the poorly conceived western edge of Smarttrack until the election is over.

 

[dowlingm]

Chow definitely has some 'splainin' to do on her financials. The LTT increase is a drop in the bucket (which she intends to spend on a couple of initiatives) and it will be interesting to see how many people find ways around a $2m selling price to avoid it. The property tax levy for Scarb sub is to cover a much smaller expenditure than DRL will be, and some stuff like BD resignalling will have to be paid for separately and not shoved into the Scarb extension budget.

 

[Hopkins123]

As for SmartTrack, Tory will win the election, and then have "negotiations" with the province. The result will be that the Eglinton spur he talks of will be scrapped, because the planning is already there to extend the Crosstown west to the airport, and it will integrate with an existing line. He can say he tried, but the province assured him Crosstown will cover that segment.

That segment of the Crosstown wouldn't be built until post-2022. SmartTrack promises it complete around the same time as the rest of the Crosstown opens, such that there'd only be one transfer to get right across Eglinton from Renforth to Kennedy. SmartTrack is the better option too because it offers a direct connection to downtown from Mississauga, meaning less pressure is placed on central Eglinton and the transfer points at Allen and Yonge. If we can get grade-separation through the Richview lands, we ought to pursue it.

 

[sixrings]

That segment of the Crosstown wouldn't be built until post-2022. SmartTrack promises it complete around the same time as the rest of the Crosstown opens, such that there'd only be one transfer to get right across Eglinton from Renforth to Kennedy. SmartTrack is the better option too because it offers a direct connection to downtown from Mississauga, meaning less pressure is placed on central Eglinton and the transfer points at Allen and Yonge. If we can get grade-separation through the Richview lands, we ought to pursue it.

It is possible to get a ROW Eglinton LRT west to Pearson done by 2022. It is just a matter of how much money people want to spend. Fortunately it is a lot less money than it would be to actually dig a tunnel on Eglinton like SmartTrack suggests.

 

[ssiguy2]

I realize that higher ridership means more rolling stock thank you very much. At the same time your replies seem to be that you can't provide better service because people will then start using the service.

Also in non-rush hour times GO has tons of capacity in fact it literally has more capacity then it knows what to do with. There are so many trains not running that are having problems figuring out where they can put them all. Those are trains that should be running for the benefit of Torontonians during the day, evenings, and weekends. They could begin by making those trips as part of a Metropass system from certain times of the day and as more rolling stock arrives those times can be eliminated.

If Metrolinx's issue is that they don't want more people on their trains so they make the system grossly expensive and hence not an option for Torontonians then Toronto really does have problems. The idea of not providing affordable, accessible transit is because too many people will take is warped beyond belief.

 

[salsa]

Understanding Metrolinx: What the agency does, who runs it, and what it means for transit in Toronto

http://torontoist.com/2014/10/understanding-metrolinx/

 

[jcam]

Extending the Crosstown makes the most sense as there are more benefits: LRT in the middle of the road is cheaper, already planned, ROW is protected, doesn't require tunneling (you could cut-and-cover some dives under major intersections if you really wanted to), and no transfers required from Renforth Gateway (the terminus of the MiWay BRT) all the way to Kennedy...and beyond if you tacked the Transit City Malvern LRT onto the Crosstown.

Also, if we get the integrated fares noted in the Mandate Letter I referenced above, then someone coming from Mississauga along the crosstown could transfer at Mount Dennis or Caledonia and take the GO train (Kitchener or Barrie trains) into Union.